Are E-bikes more dangerous than motos??

[sk8norcal]

Yeah, more regulation and literal regulation on bike needed. I'm in favour of ID-card slot somewhere that powers bike based upon your driving skill. As determined by tiered-licensing system that requires passing skills-based tests. Then that rating is saved to your ID any vehicle you own requires you to have proper ratings for various performance levels.

so the id card limits the power of the bike?

idea is interesting, but I don't see that ever happening.
they can potentially apply it to gas motorcycles and nobody wants that. :laughing

I just listened to a podcast recently where a long time mc instructor said there is no proof that riders who passed our current training program "MSF/CMSP" have lower accident rates than riders who trained on their own...

 

[DannoXYZ]

Well, it's a good intro. But they have to follow through with lots of practice. I think lots of graduates think they've got it all handled and don't practice. I saw something somewhere that said graduates actually have higher accident rate.

I've long been in favour of tiered licensing for moto licenses like they have in Europe and Asia. Would really help here. And apply it to eBikes and autos as well. So, so many drivers without necessary skill to safely navigate our roads.

That's the problem with democracy, no one wants to vote on a good idea that may make life more difficult on themselves. What we need to do is make me dictator!!! I'd be a benevolent one of course.

 

[sk8norcal]

Well, it's a good intro. But they have to follow through with lots of practice. I think lots of graduates think they've got it all handled and don't practice. I saw something somewhere that said graduates actually have higher accident rate..

yeah, that was his point, too many people who take that class get lulled into false sense of security.


I will vote for you as a dictator :thumbup

 

[Killroy1999]

Did any of that research actually happen here in America?

I think Mythbusters did a demonstration too.

The idea about traffic circles is that it requires you to be alert, where stop signs require you to stop or go, so its easy for drivers to tune out and even blow off the red light or stop sign.

 

[chickenfried]

Hells no. I got a sensible first bike CB500F ABS. But if someone wants to hop on a cbr1000rr the day after passing CMSP, more power to them.

Eldritch gets my dictator vote...

I've long been in favour of tiered licensing for moto licenses like they have in Europe and Asia. Would really help here. And apply it to eBikes and autos as well. So, so many drivers without necessary skill to safely navigate our roads.

That's the problem with democracy, no one wants to vote on a good idea that may make life more difficult on themselves. What we need to do is make me dictator!!! I'd be a benevolent one of course.

 

[DannoXYZ]

Hells no. I got a sensible first bike CB500F ABS. But if someone wants to hop on a cbr1000rr the day after passing CMSP, more power to them.

Eldritch gets my dictator vote...

I'm all for Darwin Awards! If they just kill themselves. But lots of times, there's innocents that get taken out too.

 

[justanotherg20]

I don't think 28mph is actually all that fast. :dunno

It is if you're not used to it and while I don't have any hard numbers (like, at ALL) I'd guess most weekend fun riders or bike commuters who don't want to get too sweaty don't hit speeds close to that often, much less on a bike made much heavier by motor and battery.

 

[sk8norcal]

It is if you're not used to it and while I don't have any hard numbers (like, at ALL) I'd guess most weekend fun riders or bike commuters who don't want to get too sweaty don't hit speeds close to that often, much less on a bike made much heavier by motor and battery.

wait what? the motor and battery helps you go faster.
Assuming we are talking about a legal 750watt class 3 ebike here, it's pedal assist to 28mph.

Your average joe (non-cyclist) can pedal a regular pedal bike about 13 mph on the flat.

Put him on class 3 ebike (like a turbo vado), I am guessing he could do 25 mph??

I have never ridden a class 3 ebike, only higher power non-legal ones with a throttle.

 

[chickenfried]

Cars and trucks yes but motorcycles? I'm doubtful.

I'm all for Darwin Awards! If they just kill themselves. But lots of times, there's innocents that get taken out too.

 

[jwb]

wait what? the motor and battery helps you go faster.
Assuming we are talking about a legal 750watt class 3 ebike here, it's pedal assist to 28mph.

Your average joe (non-cyclist) can pedal a regular pedal bike about 13 mph on the flat.

Put him on class 3 ebike (like a turbo vado), I am guessing he could do 25 mph??

I have never ridden a class 3 ebike, only higher power non-legal ones with a throttle.

I used to ride my Specialized Turbo bouncing off the speed limiter most of the time, but I also ride a normal bike at 20+ MPH on a flat road and it wasn't easy maintaining 28 on the Turbo. That bike isn't anything like aerodynamic and it doesn't have an aero riding position, either. Maintaining full speed on that bike required as much human power as maintaining 20 on a road bike, it's just that "full speed" was a bit faster.

But that's not the true brilliance of e-bikes. The true brilliance of them is going 12-15 MPH up a steep hill where a strong cyclist would be doing 7-9 MPH and most normal people would just dismount and walk instead. That and sprinting from stop lights faster than ICE cars can do.

 

[LectricBill]

The true brilliance of them is going 12-15 MPH up a steep hill where a strong cyclist would be doing 7-9 MPH and most normal people would just dismount and walk instead. That and sprinting from stop lights faster than ICE cars can do.

+1.

Specialized motto: "It's you only faster". At my age, I modified it to: "It's me only easier." I just no longer had any interest in climbing steep hills. Now I do.

My ebike came with a 20 mph motor assist limit which I found really annoying. Not that I wanted to speed much, but it just kept cutting out on flat rides where I and the motor wanted to travel around 21, 22 or so. I defeated the nanny and find it much more pleasant.

Even with a jailbroken bike, high speeds aren't very feasible because of the wind resistance. There's one long downhill on my ride. If I just coast with gravity, I get up to around 33 mph. If I pedal for all I'm worth in top gear, I can just break 42 mph.

 

[sk8norcal]

I used to ride my Specialized Turbo bouncing off the speed limiter most of the time, but I also ride a normal bike at 20+ MPH on a flat road and it wasn't easy maintaining 28 on the Turbo. That bike isn't anything like aerodynamic and it doesn't have an aero riding position, either. Maintaining full speed on that bike required as much human power as maintaining 20 on a road bike, it's just that "full speed" was a bit faster.

But that's not the true brilliance of e-bikes. The true brilliance of them is going 12-15 MPH up a steep hill where a strong cyclist would be doing 7-9 MPH and most normal people would just dismount and walk instead. That and sprinting from stop lights faster than ICE cars can do.

sounds fun!
yeah years ago, i tried a 13% grade road on an e-mtb with 48v, geared hub motor, throttle, and me peddling. U feel like Lance Armstrong on steroid :laughing

here's a guy on the turbo creo


youtu.be/9vdbY88Z4Pk

 

[jwb]

sounds fun!
yeah years ago, i tried a 13% grade road on an e-mtb with 48v, geared hub motor, throttle, and me peddling. U feel like Lance Armstrong on steroid :laughing

here's a guy on the turbo creo


youtu.be/9vdbY88Z4Pk

That Creo is sick. My Turbo weighed 48 pounds and had half that range. 120 miles in a package that only weighs 30 pounds is incredible progress.

I think it sucks that bicycles of all things have a mandatory speed limiter while you can sell a car that goes 200 MPH if you want. That said, my Tarmac Pro starts tankslapping if I get over 40 MPH, so I'm not sure how fast I want to go on a bicycle while wearing what amounts to a Speedo and a hard hat.

 

[Killroy1999]

That said, my Tarmac Pro starts tankslapping if I get over 40 MPH, so I'm not sure how fast I want to go on a bicycle while wearing what amounts to a Speedo and a hard hat.

You have a 'tank' on your bicycle. :teeth

I have never had any issues at 40 MPH on a regular road bike. I've heard that some people have experienced head shake/speed wobble, but I thought it was the result of death gripping or locking your elbows or something like that.

 

[sk8norcal]

You have a 'tank' on your bicycle. :teeth

I have never had any issues at 40 MPH on a regular road bike. I've heard that some people have experienced head shake/speed wobble, but I thought it was the result of death gripping or locking your elbows or something like that.

it's called shimmy in the cycling world.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shimmy.html

 

[Killroy1999]

it's called shimmy in the cycling world.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/shimmy.html

Nice link to the legend Sheldon Brown. I'm a life long bike rider, but I don't know the proper terminology. Probably because its quite rare. Some good insight from the article.

 

[sk8norcal]

Nice link to the legend Sheldon Brown. I'm a life long bike rider, but I don't know the proper terminology. Probably because its quite rare. Some good insight from the article.

it's more common on a road bike, maybe more likely on steel frames,
you can induce it, next time when going downhill, sit up and give the handlebar a slap, pinch your knees on the top tube to stop it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSNjpQPdrX4

That article mentioned local cyclist Jobst Brandt, also well known in the cycling world, he wrote the book "bicycle wheel"

 

[justanotherg20]

wait what? the motor and battery helps you go faster.
Assuming we are talking about a legal 750watt class 3 ebike here, it's pedal assist to 28mph.

Your average joe (non-cyclist) can pedal a regular pedal bike about 13 mph on the flat.

Put him on class 3 ebike (like a turbo vado), I am guessing he could do 25 mph??

I have never ridden a class 3 ebike, only higher power non-legal ones with a throttle.

I meant more like how does it handle at higher speeds? Does the average 13 mph joe know how to panic brake at a stoplight going downhill, or how to swerve around a dog who jumps out into the bike lane when he's going way faster than he's used to?

I think of it maybe like taking someone who's only used to driving slow econoboxes and putting them in a fast luxury car with sound deadening so he doesn't hear the road. He's giving it the same amount of gas he always does, before he knows it all of a sudden he's going 100 and shit can happen FAST.

 

[jwb]

I meant more like how does it handle at higher speeds? Does the average 13 mph joe know how to panic brake at a stoplight going downhill, or how to swerve around a dog who jumps out into the bike lane when he's going way faster than he's used to?

I think of it maybe like taking someone who's only used to driving slow econoboxes and putting them in a fast luxury car with sound deadening so he doesn't hear the road. He's giving it the same amount of gas he always does, before he knows it all of a sudden he's going 100 and shit can happen FAST.

Nobody knows how to panic-brake going downhill, not on any bicycle or motorcycle and not in any car either. These are the same hypotheticals people use to nay-say autonomous vehicles: what will it do when it is driving 100 MPH in a whiteout blizzard and a mattress falls off a truck in front of it? Did you think of THAT?

The answer is that a person in this situation will panic, hit the guard rail, flip over, and die.

Same thing for your hypothetical: anyone who panics on the brakes going downhill on a two-wheeled conveyance is certain to crash.

 

[Matty D]

Uh, some people know how to brake in emergencies in or on all kinds of vehicles, and some don't. That's issue 1.

E-bikes can go faster, but even if we're talking about the same speed they are harder to stop because they are heavier, and many (like most of the rideshare bikes) don't have great brakes. Some people know that and some don't. That's issue 2.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there on e-bikes with both issues. They don't know what they're doing on any bike AND they don't understand how to safely ride the bike they're actually riding.