Are E-bikes more dangerous than motos??

[Killroy1999]

Exactly. It's not the bikes that are dangerous, it's the cars.

I agree with this. Like motorcyclist, bicycle riders often find themselves crashing by themselves, but when cars and trucks are involved, the majority of the time its the car drivers fault. The research is tricky because police reports have shown a bias with car drivers.

 

[Killroy1999]

from the videos I have seen of China, bicycles have turned into electric scooters with SLA batteries, many running higher volts, riding in "protected" bike lanes. I have read the accident rates are very high.

Ive rode bikes in many Chinese cities. There is not a culture of courtesy or safety there. You will see bad behavior by all road users, like in the US but up a notch. Car drivers are terrible. Yet, I would not hesitate to ride on the street.

Over time there are less and less pedal pushers, many are on low speed electric scooters or ebikes that dont require pedaling. Plenty of bike share bikes, though. I guess the Chinese are trying to get fat like Americans.

 

[gixxerjeff]

Exactly. It's not the bikes that are dangerous, it's the cars.

"Guns don't kill people. People with guns do."

 

[berth]

The bikes are dangerous simply because the people think they're no different than their 10 speed Huffy's. So, the approach is more casual than it should be.

 

[DannoXYZ]

skill level of U.S. cyclists are way below their European or Asian countreparts. I was in Hong Kong and Viet Nam last January, and saw cyclists, scooters and motorcycles ride elbow to elbow. When they encountre 4-way intersection, there's some slowing and they just weave through in all directions. No stopping, no crashing.

Roundabouts everywhere. No one even pauses going in. Just maintenance speed and aim for back wheel of someone going around and you zipper in right behind them. In U.S., people will stop at roundabout like 4-way stop. Then wait for entire thing to be clear before entering. There was roundabout in Santa Barbara they installed to replace 4-way stop because that was so inefficient. One lane usually backs uo 1/4-mile uphill.

Well, roundabout made it even worse! Idiots from all lanes are waiting for it to clear and no one goes!

When I find myself there in non-rush hour times, there's usually one or two waiting. So I just do laps around roundabout and make them wait even longer. I counted 15-laps around once before someone was brave enough to go around with me on opposite side. Multi-lane roundabouts in U.S.? Furgit about it! Death and destruction for sure!

 

[berth]

skill level of U.S. cyclists are way below their European or Asian countreparts. I was in Hong Kong and Viet Nam last January, and saw cyclists, scooters and motorcycles ride elbow to elbow. When they encountre 4-way intersection, there's some slowing and they just weave through in all directions. No stopping, no crashing.

We don't have the roadway designs and density they do, so we don't need to develop those skills.

The evidence of how uncomfortable people are with roundabouts is simply a testament to unfamiliarity. I've been in the 5 lane ones in Paris, and I wasn't even driving, and it was an uncomfortable experience. I'm sure given 6 months, I'd adapt.

I know of, I think, 2 roundabouts anywhere near me in Southern California (I'm sure there are more). But that just goes to show their commonality (or lack of).

And, sorry, roundabout entrances are Yields, and I can stop at a Yield if I'm uncertain. You need to have a lot of trust of the other drivers for roundabouts, something culturally (as evidence by much of the discussion on boards like these) we don't have. So, roundabouts may not be as efficient as one perhaps would like.

 

[jwb]

Many roundabouts in the USA are actually posted with stop signs, because we are the dumbest nation.

 

[CDONA]

I have one out here on Hwy 60, 4 miles west, @ Vicksburg xing.
Out for breakfast this morning, driving up, I watched an MT semi roll up to the circle fairly fast, then stop and look before proceeding, I was the only traffic, and 1/8 mile or better away.
Yield signs,

This intersection had a notorious rep for T-bones

 

[SuperMotoD]

i bought two MTN Ebike this year and have fallen off more this year than I have in the last 40 years riding motorcycles, But no broken bones.

 

[dittoalex]

The 250 watt motors by big manufacturers actually spend much time spiking to ~750w.

 

[UDRider]

I don't think 28mph is actually all that fast. :dunno

 

[DannoXYZ]

Heck, I can go that fast on just pedal power!!!

 

[cg_ops]

Many roundabouts in the USA are actually posted with stop signs, because we are the dumbest nation.

And then there's almost-universally hated abomination on Hwy 12...

If we're too dumb for city roundabouts, who thought it would be a good idea to put a NARROW one on a freeway way half the traffic is semis? :wtf

If safety were really the concern, spend some extra money and use overpasses on/off 12 from/to 113. More expensive, yes, but ~0% chance of cross-traffic collisions.

 

[Killroy1999]

Good road design is another topic, but there is lot of research data that concludes that roundabouts are not only safer that a 4 way stop, but higher throughput. Too bad in general the US has not caught on yet. 'Merica :flag

 

[berth]

Good road design is another topic, but there is lot of research data that concludes that roundabouts are not only safer that a 4 way stop, but higher throughput. Too bad in general the US has not caught on yet. 'Merica :flag

Did any of that research actually happen here in America?

 

[DannoXYZ]

https://www.verdenews.com/news/2017/aug/31/studies-say-roundabouts-are-safer-faster-cost-effe/

https://bikewalkcentralflorida.org/2016/06/20/no-way-around-roundabouts-safer-signals-signs/

https://www.iihs.org/topics/roundabouts

https://wonderfulengineering.com/is...-4-way-stop-this-experiment-finds-the-answer/

https://fowlerinjurylaw.com/traffic-roundabouts/

https://wsdot.wa.gov/Safety/roundabouts/benefits.htm

https://hackaday.com/2020/05/25/hacking-the-road-roundabouts/

https://www.bishoplegal.com/roundabouts-safer/

https://sites.psu.edu/siowfa15/2015/09/18/is-driving-faster-safer/

https://nextstl.com/2013/10/mythbusters-tackles-four-way-stop-v-roundabout-traffic-throughput/

https://www.ltrc.lsu.edu/ltc_09/pdf/Doctor, Mark.pdf

http://oxnardcpg.com/2016/03/26/modern-roundabouts-a-safer-choice/

https://priceonomics.com/the-case-for-more-traffic-roundabouts/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-...-cheaper-safer-according-to-studies-1.1377321

http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et0501/et0501s12.html

https://www.westlafayette.in.gov/egov/documents/1248454990_237030.pdf

https://dailyiowan.com/2020/03/03/they-are-safer-for-drivers-and-more-efficient-for-traffic/

https://bringmethenews.com/life/roundabouts-have-made-intersections-a-lot-safer-in-minnesota

https://www.uc.edu/cdc/niehoff_studio/programs/great_streets/w10/reports/roundabout_report.pdf

https://www.insurancejournal.com/magazines/mag-features/2000/08/14/22640.htm

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2095756418302708

https://www.statista.com/chart/23279/roundabouts-per-one-million-inhabitants-selected-countries/

https://www.npr.org/2011/09/28/140877823/going-round-in-circles-over-traffic-fix

http://transport.ksu.edu/center/news/manhattan-news

https://www.inc.com/minda-zetlin/a-...says-its-possible-with-todays-technology.html

https://sjcityplanning.weebly.com/roundabouts.html


Here's thing, doesn't matter how many extra things you have to learn, you're still behind if you learn it after someone else. Can you really say that you can't beat Rossi on track because you're just not "familiar" with rubbing your knee and elbows on ground at 150+? And that with just a little time to "get familiar" with process, you can be just as good?

People who've been riding bicycles and scooters to get around since they were 5 and have been navigating rough roads and territory is always gonna be more skilled at those tasks than those who've picked it up later or never been trained on it. Just name one world-champion motoGP rider who started riding after 12-yrs old. And how many of those have been from U.S.???

 

[onto1wheel]

sur ron rider dies

I'm guessing this headline fits in here?
RIP rider

https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2021/01/25/soquel-man-dies-in-single-bicycle-accident/

SOQUEL – A Soquel man died Saturday afternoon in an electric bicycle accident.

The 57-year-old man, who has yet to be identified by authorities, was riding his bike north up Sumner Avenue when he struck the center median. He was then ejected off of his bike and into the road, according to a California Highway Patrol report.

“You can actually see where he hit the median and traveled a considerable distance before he came to a rest, both him and the bike,” said California Highway Patrol Officer Sam Courtney.

A closer look at the bike, a Sur Ron electric bicycle, helped officers determine it was not built for highway use, according to Courtney. It was built as an off-highway bike meant for dirt tracks or smaller roads. Sumner Avenue is considered a highway due to a loose definition of the word. When the bike is classified as off-highway, it means it’s not built to be used on public roads.

The man was wearing safety equipment, according to the report, but he was pronounced dead at the scene. He died from the injuries he sustained from the crash, but officials have not yet released the nature of the injuries.

California Highway Patrol is also waiting for toxicology report. Alcohol has not been ruled out as a contributor to the accident, but also has not been determined to be a cause.

“There are signs and symptoms of alcohol consumption at the scene, but we don’t know what level that is,” Courtney said. “We’re going to have to wait for a toxicology report.

 

[sk8norcal]

I'm guessing this headline fits in here?
RIP rider

that's unfortunate,
possible alcohol was involved, so that's not good.
Sumner ave is a 25mph street, sounds like he hit that median at a pretty good speed.

The guy was on a Surron light bee (8000 watt), so not a class 1/2/3 ebike, most likely his Surron has the limiter removed, so over the 4hp power limit for a moped.
(it's possible that his surron is modded also with more than 8000 watt)

I am a fan of the Surron as a transportation device, just needs to be better regulated.

 

[DannoXYZ]

Yeah, more regulation and literal regulation on bike needed. I'm in favour of ID-card slot somewhere that powers bike based upon your driving skill. As determined by tiered-licensing system that requires passing skills-based tests. Then that rating is saved to your ID any vehicle you own requires you to have proper ratings for various performance levels.

 

[jwb]

I'm guessing this headline fits in here?
RIP rider

https://www.santacruzsentinel.com/2021/01/25/soquel-man-dies-in-single-bicycle-accident/

SOQUEL – A Soquel man died Saturday afternoon in an electric bicycle accident.

The 57-year-old man, who has yet to be identified by authorities, was riding his bike north up Sumner Avenue when he struck the center median. He was then ejected off of his bike and into the road, according to a California Highway Patrol report.

“You can actually see where he hit the median and traveled a considerable distance before he came to a rest, both him and the bike,” said California Highway Patrol Officer Sam Courtney.

A closer look at the bike, a Sur Ron electric bicycle, helped officers determine it was not built for highway use, according to Courtney. It was built as an off-highway bike meant for dirt tracks or smaller roads. Sumner Avenue is considered a highway due to a loose definition of the word. When the bike is classified as off-highway, it means it’s not built to be used on public roads.

The man was wearing safety equipment, according to the report, but he was pronounced dead at the scene. He died from the injuries he sustained from the crash, but officials have not yet released the nature of the injuries.

California Highway Patrol is also waiting for toxicology report. Alcohol has not been ruled out as a contributor to the accident, but also has not been determined to be a cause.

“There are signs and symptoms of alcohol consumption at the scene, but we don’t know what level that is,” Courtney said. “We’re going to have to wait for a toxicology report.

So some drunk killed himself with an unlicensed electric motorcycle. That strongly suggests the answer to the question of whether e-bikes are more dangerous than motorcycles is "no".