Anyone catch this article about AMA?
- Thread starter sidewazzz
- Start date
clutchslip
Not as fast as I look.
He covers most of it, but I think he gives DMG too little blame and the fans too much blame for the accelerated lose of attendance, after DMG took over. While he touches on it somewhat, the lack of interest in road racing is troublesome, even for autos. Particularly in the United States. Just look at this section, and while there are "terrifying" fanatics for MotoGP, things drop off in a hurry. AMA is WAY down on people's entertainment expenditures, even for "race fans".
LongGoneJohn
Gone
The sad thing is the past 2 years of AMA racing have been exciting as hell. Sure Josh Hayes is just smoking the field, but it's still fantastic to watch and Daytona Sport Bike was freaking insane all year long. You couldn't find more exciting racing on TV. Certainly not MotoGP or WSBK anyway.
I don't have the answer, but it sure sucks to have a pathetic national series -- which means we'll have a pathetic showing in the world racing leagues for decades to come.
I don't have the answer, but it sure sucks to have a pathetic national series -- which means we'll have a pathetic showing in the world racing leagues for decades to come.
Spec-ECU
required protocol
The previous two posts from this are the perfect example of the two that it took to tango.
Yes DMG can be solely blamed for alienating the AMA fanbase, but the racers themselves continued to race under the banner, and did what they can to provide a great show, yet still the fans didn't turn up. The fans should've stuck it out with their racers, especially if this is the only thing we have as far as a national series.
Yes DMG can be solely blamed for alienating the AMA fanbase, but the racers themselves continued to race under the banner, and did what they can to provide a great show, yet still the fans didn't turn up. The fans should've stuck it out with their racers, especially if this is the only thing we have as far as a national series.
stangmx13
not Stan
saw the article a few days ago when the thread popped up on the WERA forum. John Ulrich is over there providing info about it and somewhat shooting ppl down :laughing
really, IMO, its a terribly written article. the author doesnt stick to any one point and provides a lot of evidence for why the current disgruntled fans are NOT "the biggest thread to AMA Pro". Ulrich on the other forum commented that point was mostly in response to fan comments that were completely off base, not in response to points that the author as brought up... u kno, valid ones.
IMO, AMA has reach a new low this year. ya, the racing has been great... but it seems like no one at DMG cares to put in the effort to make sure we can enjoy it. no TV deal, a shorter shittier schedule (Supersport West has how many rounds in the West?!?), alienating promoters that prev did a great job, etc etc.
i will come around once a TV deal is up, once i know i can watch all the races with or without SpeedTV. however, its going to be a lot harder to fix those relationships with racers that lost sponsors and rides because the TV deal vanished.
really, IMO, its a terribly written article. the author doesnt stick to any one point and provides a lot of evidence for why the current disgruntled fans are NOT "the biggest thread to AMA Pro". Ulrich on the other forum commented that point was mostly in response to fan comments that were completely off base, not in response to points that the author as brought up... u kno, valid ones.
IMO, AMA has reach a new low this year. ya, the racing has been great... but it seems like no one at DMG cares to put in the effort to make sure we can enjoy it. no TV deal, a shorter shittier schedule (Supersport West has how many rounds in the West?!?), alienating promoters that prev did a great job, etc etc.
i will come around once a TV deal is up, once i know i can watch all the races with or without SpeedTV. however, its going to be a lot harder to fix those relationships with racers that lost sponsors and rides because the TV deal vanished.
clutchslip
Not as fast as I look.
Can you see how biased this sounds? If the Rolling Stones do a lame show, with a bunch of high school musicians and Jagger sits in a chair in his blue jeans, should the fans stay "loyal" and buy tickets, anyway? I doubt that would happen. Again, racing is entertainment. There is lots of entertainment to spend money on. AMA racing is just another way to blow your extra dough.
I have made my sentiments clear before in other threads. I just pulled out what summed it up for me.
I support the AMA Hall of Fame, for Dick Mann's sake. I even have a special AMA member number. I hate what has happened, but you can't force people to suddenly forget what was done and blow money on something that has lost what little luster it had.
Spec-ECU
required protocol
Not comparable in my opinion. We only have a single national road racing series.
Spec-ECU
required protocol
Agreed. Was just pointing out that despite the mismanagement, the actual racing continued and to me, personally, was worth it to stick around despite the regime. When the actual racers call it quits, then so will I.
In my opinion, the fans abandoning the series because of DMG hurt the racers more than anything else.
For the record, I didn't read the article, but just bounced off of the first two responses in this thread.
clutchslip
Not as fast as I look.
You are still showing your bias. It is JUST entertainment. People can spend their money and time any way that they choose. They can go to the Stone's concert, instead of going to AMA races. It doesn't matter if there is one, or a million road racing series in the U.S.. It is just another attraction, like Disneyland or a bowl of Marin dope. EDIT: And there is only one Rolling Stones, btw.
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stangmx13
not Stan
(purposefully ignoring your "neutered" comment)
IMO, the real problem is that they didnt do it different... DMG didnt not repair enough of the issues that plagued the prev version of AMA Pro. They are still holding onto the roots of AMA Pro which bring quite a few issues that dont need to exist.
Heres my list of things that werent repaired:
1. TV deal,; obvious
2. Promoters; way to fuck that up
3. Race schedule; Sat & Sun races, way to be behind the times
4. Calendar; so tired of huge break between Daytona and the real Rd1
5. Daytona; glorified endurance race thats too expensive for teams and fans dont go to
ya DMG lost a lot of credibility with their fuck-ups from their first 2 years, safety car, rider punishments, inconsistent rules, PR nightmares, etc. but they've rectified those and have consistently had good racing for a few years now. IMO, most of the fans lost in those 2yrs have either come back or been replaced which is great for the series.
really, i believed that the hard times were over for AMA Pro and that DMG could now start to work on more issues (#'s 3-5 above ^). but with #1 and #2 popping up, we are in for another hard year or 3
.
Zerox
Can I be....frank?
The only "blame" I saw was the estimated $6 billion dollars that disappeared from motorcycling due to the economy crash. That's a mind-boggling amount of money.
That article was spot on. :thumbup
A fringe sport that was not very popular in the first place is going to take a hellacious beating when so much money disappears. There were never any racing highlights on ESPN Sportcenter before the market crashed, before DMG took over. And there are no racing on highlights on ESPN Sportcenter today either. The only time motorcycle racing got coverage was oddball stuff like Rapp's front end flying through the air in Sports Illustrated.
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ALANRIDER7
MeowMeowMeow
This is a classic case of head-up-their-ass idiots running a series into the ground. What a waste. Roadracing in America degraded into a laughing stock. The juice is gone.
It's just like a garden- you have to constantly manage it and continuously tend to it so it not only survives, but thrives, growing the right things the right way. Weeds and neglect fuck things up in a big way.
DMG is a joke. The series used to be the fastest riders on the fastest bikes. It used to be a good show. Then the lopsided domination syndrome turned things into a foregone conclusion. For years, you knew Mat Mladin or Ben Spies would win. Duh. Now Josh Hayes is the dominant racer. The question is simply how much of a lead he'll have at the finish (if his bike stays together). I don't blame them, I blame the assholes who allowed the series to rot and stagnate. The lack of even competition is the core issue. They should have been tweaking things so there were 10 Mat Mladin caliber racers ripping it up. Monster literbikes aren't the premier class anymore??? :wtf They should have been managing things so any one of 8 to 12 riders could win on any given race day. Now that's a show worth watching. Somebody should have told those assholes that passing is what makes racing a magnetic show for the fans. They forgot that. Lead changes and tight fields keep the race fans watching. Glimpses of the juice that is competitive racing won't cut it.
Supercross has the formula right. You simply don't know who is going to win because the field has a depth of talent that works. It's super competitive.
DMG didn't do a good job with the feeder series either. Tomorrow's superstars should be given the spotlight in the support classes.
Now Sears isn't even on the schedule anymore?? I remember the empty stands, yet they did nothing about it. They should flush the whole series down the toilet like the turd it is and start over with retired racers who know what racing is.
It's just like a garden- you have to constantly manage it and continuously tend to it so it not only survives, but thrives, growing the right things the right way. Weeds and neglect fuck things up in a big way.
DMG is a joke. The series used to be the fastest riders on the fastest bikes. It used to be a good show. Then the lopsided domination syndrome turned things into a foregone conclusion. For years, you knew Mat Mladin or Ben Spies would win. Duh. Now Josh Hayes is the dominant racer. The question is simply how much of a lead he'll have at the finish (if his bike stays together). I don't blame them, I blame the assholes who allowed the series to rot and stagnate. The lack of even competition is the core issue. They should have been tweaking things so there were 10 Mat Mladin caliber racers ripping it up. Monster literbikes aren't the premier class anymore??? :wtf They should have been managing things so any one of 8 to 12 riders could win on any given race day. Now that's a show worth watching. Somebody should have told those assholes that passing is what makes racing a magnetic show for the fans. They forgot that. Lead changes and tight fields keep the race fans watching. Glimpses of the juice that is competitive racing won't cut it.
Supercross has the formula right. You simply don't know who is going to win because the field has a depth of talent that works. It's super competitive.
DMG didn't do a good job with the feeder series either. Tomorrow's superstars should be given the spotlight in the support classes.
Now Sears isn't even on the schedule anymore?? I remember the empty stands, yet they did nothing about it. They should flush the whole series down the toilet like the turd it is and start over with retired racers who know what racing is.
stangmx13
not Stan
i think one mistake that everyone is making in American road racing is that we need the factories and their $$ to have a good show/series/races/riders/etc. ya, their money left the series.... so learn to function without it. even if somehow all that $$ came back into the economy, its not going to magically make it back into racing overnight. so, unless we want to have shitty racing for a decade, something ELSE needs to be done.
i agree that all those issues added to the downward spiral of AMA Pro, but they dont mean much now when we cant even watch the races on TV :mad
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sidewazzz
Well-known member
I got a kick how the editor blames Sears for not having a race sponcer. And fans on forums... They do realize these forums only have about couple hundred active members at a time? On top of that ama is so rarely talked about now... It's hard to bad mouth them because nobody cares.
Baseball took a huge hit back when they hard the strike. Fans simply didn't show up for YEARS and they still played a normal season.
You can't rePly blame dmg for trying to capture a new market but you can sure as shit blame then for watering down our series and alienating their current fans base. I also put blame on the riders... Yes... They should have started a riders union or somethig along the lines to keep Thier say in what does and doesn't happen. Almost every sport has one and those athletes don't get fucked and northern does their sport.
Baseball took a huge hit back when they hard the strike. Fans simply didn't show up for YEARS and they still played a normal season.
You can't rePly blame dmg for trying to capture a new market but you can sure as shit blame then for watering down our series and alienating their current fans base. I also put blame on the riders... Yes... They should have started a riders union or somethig along the lines to keep Thier say in what does and doesn't happen. Almost every sport has one and those athletes don't get fucked and northern does their sport.
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Zerox
Can I be....frank?
What about the point the author made about there not even being a racing series today if DMG hadn't spent millions? He said AMA could not have survived the market crash and financed AMA Racing too, it would've bankrupted the AMA.
Other than the mistakes that DMG made in their early days, it seems like most gripes that remain were caused by the heavy handed Roger guy...."He Who Should Not Be Named."
As the author pointed out, lots of behind the scenes racing organization stuff that we don't think about runs quite smoothly now. Things are looking rather AWESOME for the actual racing, it's the empty stands and lack of sponsors that are the problem. But on the racetrack, this product delivers. :thumbup
Really want to see live streaming of the races just like motogp, it can't be that difficult with a little cash infusion. All the racing is in the lower 48 so no international travel costs to deal with (travel costs are the only reason I can fathom that WSBK hasn't done this yet).
Come on AMA lurkers who are reading this thread, get yo' game on the internet so we can watch with a paid subscription. Grow the sport via the net and get this sport viral which will eventually get butts in seats too.
arty
sidewazzz
Well-known member
What about the point the author made about there not even being a racing series today if DMG hadn't spent millions? He said AMA could not have survived the market crash and financed AMA Racing too, it would've bankrupted the AMA.
Other than the mistakes that DMG made in their early days, it seems like most gripes that remain were caused by the heavy handed Roger guy...."He Who Should Not Be Named."
As the author pointed out, lots of behind the scenes racing organization stuff that we don't think about runs quite smoothly now. Things are looking rather AWESOME for the actual racing, it's the empty stands and lack of sponsors that are the problem. But on the racetrack, this product delivers. :thumbup
Really want to see live streaming of the races just like motogp, it can't be that difficult with a little cash infusion. All the racing is in the lower 48 so no international travel costs to deal with (travel costs are the only reason I can fathom that WSBK hasn't done this yet).
Come on AMA lurkers who are reading this thread, get yo' game on the internet so we can watch with a paid subscription. Grow the sport via the net and get this sport viral which will eventually get butts in seats too.
That's going on the whole "what if". The Fact is somone new came along and said fuck you guys, I mean literally. Losses all but 10% of fan base and someone now claims if the take over didn't happen AMA would have gone byby anyways :laughing.
One thing is for sure, if the take over didn't happen...
Fans would have stayed maybe we would have lost some to the economy but not a huge amount.
Teams would have stayed and of course you lose a couple every year
most importantly you wouldn't have forced riders out (Matt Maladin, Jamie Hacking, Jason disalvo and a few others.)
Dmitriy
ㅅ
Funny how BARF had more then a few threads on AMA Pro Road Racing issues over the last few month, but John Ulrich doesn't seem to bother coming here to address them. Maybe because our points are VALID & are hard to argue against. oh well.
That article while entertaining to read fail connect the issues together, the main reason promoters are pulling the plug & tracks like sears are unable to commit is DUE to the lack of a TV package (or even a STREAMING one, maybe we keep hammering that into their heads as a collective voice they will actually listen). NOT because some rich investor just decided to pull out for NO reason. BUT we all predicted as much 5 months ago: Post #39 (although I guess miller still wanted them so they paid)
My personal opinion for the HUGE gap between daytona & the first real race is because they would look REALLY bad hosting a race with no TV coverage so they are postponing as much as possible.
PS I think they could use a little more proof reading before posting over there on RRW, that should be 2013 (referring to the current year):
PSS: Since last time I got schooled on quoting RRW here is a rebuttal:
That article while entertaining to read fail connect the issues together, the main reason promoters are pulling the plug & tracks like sears are unable to commit is DUE to the lack of a TV package (or even a STREAMING one, maybe we keep hammering that into their heads as a collective voice they will actually listen). NOT because some rich investor just decided to pull out for NO reason. BUT we all predicted as much 5 months ago: Post #39 (although I guess miller still wanted them so they paid)
My personal opinion for the HUGE gap between daytona & the first real race is because they would look REALLY bad hosting a race with no TV coverage so they are postponing as much as possible.
PS I think they could use a little more proof reading before posting over there on RRW, that should be 2013 (referring to the current year):
RRW said:
PSS: Since last time I got schooled on quoting RRW here is a rebuttal:
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stangmx13
not Stan
do we have any actual data about the fan base?? we keep talking about it without real numbers.
i wouldnt be surprised if TV viewership was actually up last year compared to pre-DMG AMA Pro. yes, no one goes to races anymore, but that was inevitable. the country is too large for tons of ppl to drive, tracks still dont have jumbo-trons, racing is still divided over 2 days, and vendors would have left no matter who owned the rights to the series because of the economy. but the fan base may actually have grown because last year's racing was solid and we actually got to watch it.
i wouldnt be surprised if TV viewership was actually up last year compared to pre-DMG AMA Pro. yes, no one goes to races anymore, but that was inevitable. the country is too large for tons of ppl to drive, tracks still dont have jumbo-trons, racing is still divided over 2 days, and vendors would have left no matter who owned the rights to the series because of the economy. but the fan base may actually have grown because last year's racing was solid and we actually got to watch it.
stangmx13
not Stan
possible. IIRC, there were TBA races in between but of course those dried up with no TV deal :facepalm
funny, IMO, the longer AMA Pro waits to cement a deal, the worse their bargaining position gets. if its 1wk for Rd2, NBC Sports (or whoever) is going to be able to throw them a "take it or leave it" deal and pay whatever price they want.
an assload of ppl need to be fired over this debacle.
wait, normally TV networks PAY for broadcasting rights to motorsport events. if AMA Pro viewership is pretty low (ie as bad as ppl think), then theres almost no incentive for a network to show it because theyd have to remove a show with higher ratings to broadcast. what if NBC Sports charged AMA Pro to broadcast?? :laughing