450 Triple or SV 650?

[ACA]

To answer the tire usage question, it depends! At T-Hill on a hot weekend I can go through a rear a day. But I just did round 1 and went through about 1.5 rears (half friday practice, all the AFM practice, a short eval and 5 races). I change the fronts maybe once every two race weekends (but I'm a pansy on the brakes). The race pace was slow, and temps cold to moderate.

Unrelated to tires, I started out on a proddy SV and loved it. Then got into the 450 thing and love it too. In the end we tend to race together a lot and are pretty evenly matched; I have 3 races with SVs (F40 light, F4, and LLW). Both groups of racers are generally welcoming and helpful and we are in a good spot with respect to horsepower: enough to lug my heft around but not so much we eat a tire a race. Get either and I'll see you out there!

 

[Shaggy]

To answer the tire usage question, it depends! At T-Hill on a hot weekend I can go through a rear a day. But I just did round 1 and went through about 1.5 rears (half friday practice, all the AFM practice, a short eval and 5 races). I change the fronts maybe once every two race weekends (but I'm a pansy on the brakes). The race pace was slow, and temps cold to moderate.

This is my experience with tires also. I’m 6’4”/230 so maybe I eat tires faster than some smaller folks.

I think I’m gonna switch from Michelins to Dunlops this year and see how I like it.

 

[ACA]

One other thing, if we're ever at the same trackday, you are welcome to try my bike for a few laps. She's sort of set up for me (6'3" 235) but should give you an idea of her capabilities.

 

[The Villain]

^ That's very generous, ACA. I may try to take you up on that at some point this season, thanks.

Okay, so maybe the Triples are a little hungrier for tires, sounds like. That's probably within the margin of acceptability, though. Of course, I know it's all about how fast you want to go -- the guy who used to win most of the SV races I ran in would put in a new tire every race. But it was cool that I could still fight with the #2 guy at the last race of a season using the same tires I started the season on. Of course, those were the (now sadly extinct) UK Dunlops...

 

[akathisia]

^ That's very generous, ACA. I may try to take you up on that at some point this season, thanks.

Okay, so maybe the Triples are a little hungrier for tires, sounds like. That's probably within the margin of acceptability, though. Of course, I know it's all about how fast you want to go -- the guy who used to win most of the SV races I ran in would put in a new tire every race. But it was cool that I could still fight with the #2 guy at the last race of a season using the same tires I started the season on. Of course, those were the (now sadly extinct) UK Dunlops...

I hope you grab a 450 and come racing! Great group of people and cheap racing. I bought my 1st gen R6 fully race prepped with lot's of goodies off BARF for $1500. I ran whole season with AFM (2 races and practice per weekend) on one set of tires (Pirelli SC2s) and finished usually top 5. I weigh 150lbs. The rear started to slip a lot in the last race of the last round of the the season. So I wouldn't recommend only one set all season but just FYI it can be done.

 

[raymond_h2002]

I'll be racing 450s for the first time this year as well I got tired of sucking in 600 races so I figured I should tone down the power a bit and actually learn to ride my bike.

Hoping to make it out to rd 3 or 4!

 

[akathisia]

I'll be racing 450s for the first time this year as well I got tired of sucking in 600 races so I figured I should tone down the power a bit and actually learn to ride my bike.

Hoping to make it out to rd 3 or 4!

Awesome! Welcome to the group. You'll have a lot of fun fun fun!

 

[*VillageIdiot*]

How does one pull a cylinder to cripple it? I'm curious, I'm sure there's something somewhere on it. But for someone (like myself) who's about as mechanically inclined as a cat; is this something I could accomplish on my own?

 

[ACA]

How does one pull a cylinder to cripple it? I'm curious, I'm sure there's something somewhere on it. But for someone (like myself) who's about as mechanically inclined as a cat; is this something I could accomplish on my own?

Its pretty easy. When we first were doing this we pulled the valves out and blocked the intake and exhaust, and put in dummy injectors (pumping to themselves). Another way is to grind the lobes off the camshafts from one cylinder. The third way, and I believe most popular, is to just bypass the injectors with a dummy circuit and leave the rest be. It comes with a small sacrifice in power but is really easy.

There are other ways that would make more power (pulling piston out, rebalancing crank) but I believe the rules require no work be done below head gasket, so as to not make it a spending race.

If you need help, there are a bunch of us willing to show you how.

Charles

 

[raymond_h2002]

The third way is how I did it. Marc Zarra sells set of by-pass plugs (I think they were like $80). It literally takes more time to get your gas tank propped up than it does changing out the plugs to switch from 600 to 450 and vice versa... about 10 minutes in total.

 

[*VillageIdiot*]

Its pretty easy. When we first were doing this we pulled the valves out and blocked the intake and exhaust, and put in dummy injectors (pumping to themselves). Another way is to grind the lobes off the camshafts from one cylinder. The third way, and I believe most popular, is to just bypass the injectors with a dummy circuit and leave the rest be. It comes with a small sacrifice in power but is really easy.

There are other ways that would make more power (pulling piston out, rebalancing crank) but I believe the rules require no work be done below head gasket, so as to not make it a spending race.

If you need help, there are a bunch of us willing to show you how.

Charles

This is very valuable to me and I appreciate you taking the time to respond, I get home around late December, and I'm hoping to have a fun "return" year in 2019; so this appears as if it would make a suitable and cost effective way to enjoy some track days.

The third way is how I did it. Marc Zarra sells set of by-pass plugs (I think they were like $80). It literally takes more time to get your gas tank propped up than it does changing out the plugs to switch from 600 to 450 and vice versa... about 10 minutes in total.

Something like this would be perfect, I'm not sure if PTT (or any of the other groups) have a 'tricylcle' group; but cost effective track time is definitely in my future.

I'll be home for a couple of weeks next month, a welcome break to the grind; so I'll begin looking for a reasonable 600 to Frankenbike; thanks so much for taking the time to respond and provide some guidance to some random dude :thumbup

 

[Honey Badger]

I'm not sure if PTT (or any of the other groups) have a 'tricylcle' group;

It's called B group if you're quick on your "little" bike, C if you're not :laughing If you're really fast on it, you can call it A group

 

[*VillageIdiot*]

It's called B group if you're quick on your "little" bike, C if you're not :laughing If you're really fast on it, you can call it A group

It's been a few millennia since I turned a throttle, so I suspect they'll create a new group in my honor, the "D" Group "soap box Derby".

I appreciate the feedback, I recall liking riding with PTT so I'll give a go when I get home.

Madame, I do indeed thank you

 

[Honey Badger]

It's been a few millennia since I turned a throttle, so I suspect they'll create a new group in my honor, "soap box Derby".

I appreciate the feedback, I recall liking riding with PTT so I'll give a go when I get home.

Madame, I do indeed thank you

If you make it out, stop by and say hi! I'm the white zx10 in the staff row, only white bike I think....:laughing

 

[*VillageIdiot*]

If you make it out, stop by and say hi! I'm the white zx10 in the staff row, only white bike I think....:laughing

Indeed I shall! But it'll be awhile unfortunately, next season even. But don't be surprised when I do

 

[FreaK]

So what are the numbers looking like for the crippled class? Riders...

Seriously thinking about trying this out instead of 600 class. I took a 9 year break from racing and am eager to get back into it. I have a few track days scheduled for July and figured I would race Sonoma for my comeback.

Was considering getting an R3 to race but this class may be a better option as my bike is ready to race now. Trying to cut cost down on tires and want to learn to ride and not rely on power. Also my bike is a 2007 GSXR 600 so it may be more competitive as a triple than racing against modern 600 in the 600 classes.
Thanks for any suggestions in advance. I watched the AFM races last weekend and was dying to ride!

 

[slummy]

Freak,

I think there were about 8 or 10 of us last round.


I took a 10 year break from the track, rented a FLAP a couple times and knew I wanted to get back into the sport. I was looking for a built SV when I heard about the cripples. To me, it's the way to go -- modern package making 75hp has made me a much better rider than I ever imagined. If you are going to be at round 5, several of the 450's pit together -- come by and say hi. owen 423. PM if you have any questions or want to chat about it detail.

 

[The Villain]

Time to bring this full circle...

Thanks to the utter chill-ness of Charles, #510, I got the chance to sample a well sorted '08 R4.5 Triple at Laguna Seca last weekend. And by sample I mean I rode it all day. If Charles is representative of the typical 450 racer then I definitely want to hang/race with you guys.

Sadly, I don't think I will be...as least not racing against.

For most people I think this 450 thing is absolutely the way to go. The bike still has plenty of squirt at the top end for putting a smile on your face and dusting SVs on the straights. But it doesn't wear out a rear tire anything like a 600, and that lower power is great for working on racecraft. Chassis is top notch, modern, race-proven stuff and parts are plentiful. Plus, as mentioned, the 450 crew seems like the best slice of racer-dom. And if you want to sell it later, the new Triple-ing method is all electronic -- flip a switch and it's back to a 600.

So why am I not going to get one? Because I'm weird.

Having come up riding and racing old, narrow, squishy, slack-geometry'd, low power, low revving bikes the adaptation to a true modern supersport chassis and powerband is difficult for me. Assessing my day at Laguna I came to the conclusion that with practice I could eventually get comfortable on a 450, but maybe not comfortable enough to make the necessary push in a race...especially when, looking at my upcoming year, I'll probably only make it to 2 rounds next season. Just not enough seat time.

(And yes, I know other 600 chassis are less aggressive than the R6, but it's all of a breed).

Most people considering these bikes should absolutely go for it.

So I came excruciatingly close to pulling the trigger on this nearly complete SV650 project. (And by the way, somebody should buy that -- that's crazy gear for the price and I've ridden with the seller, he's a solid guy). But man, the SV grids in AFM are pretty feeble this season! Last season they were good, so maybe they'll come back?

Who knows, but I made the difficult decision to follow a different (and probably ridiculous) path -- I'll be building up my ghetto sumo into a light-bore track RACE tool, then try and hunt me down some Ninja 300s.

That dumbass idea will be chronicled in a build thread to be started soon. But as for my original 450 vs. SV question? Any aspiring AFMer would be stupid not to go with the 450. And if you're a So Cal rider, where the SV grids are still strong, you'd be stupid not to snatch up LA Law's bike for sale.

Me, I'm just stupid.

Thanks, everyone.

 

[Kalvin00]

But man, the SV grids in AFM are pretty feeble this season! Last season they were good, so maybe they'll come back?

I'll be trying, my first round will be at Sonoma :thumbup

 

[The Villain]

^ Geez, with your handle I thought maybe for a second you were King Kwong and was glad I wasn't gonna have to race against your again!

You mean first racing round ever? Do it! Your life will never be quite the same. And the SV is a fun as hell way to go racing.