2019 Dodge story- DEF in fuel

[scootergmc]

The problem probably is that the old geezers in the company still have enough power that they won't let the young guns have full say in the development. My brother and I have run into that kind of crap in the engineering world, the dinosaurs in the company don't want to admit that the world has passed them by yet still retain enough build-up of service to have more power/weight than they should.

Your mind lives in a weird world. The problem that manufacturers (and their engineers) have is trying to meet the constantly changing emissions standards every 4-6 years. Take these diesels for instance- the major changeover dates were 1/1/98, 1/1/04, 1/1/07, 1/1/12, etc. so on so forth. You really think some old geezer is sitting in a teak lined cigar smoke filled chamber chuckling into their snifters of brandy? I'll pray for your soul.

 

[Climber]

Your mind lives in a weird world. The problem that manufacturers (and their engineers) have is trying to meet the constantly changing emissions standards every 4-6 years. Take these diesels for instance- the major changeover dates were 1/1/98, 1/1/04, 1/1/07, 1/1/12, etc. so on so forth. You really think some old geezer is sitting in a teak lined cigar smoke filled chamber chuckling into their snifters of brandy? I'll pray for your soul.

Not my mind. I've experienced it. My brother experienced it.

Recent (3 years ago) example: My brother was working for a company that balanced satellites and their delivery vehicles. They were pretty much the only game in town for decades and had developed technology to meet the requirements necessary. It was a relatively small company and the Engineers who had been with the company for years and had part ownership of it had moved into senior positions and didn't want to see their own ideas get put by the wayside. My brother ended up leaving the company in frustration because they were stuck in a rut and weren't going to get out of it.

Another big company that he worked for, a few years earlier, one of the EVP's had backed a plan for a major design change, however there were fundamental flaws in the design that would eventually and ultimately prevent the equipment from meeting the requirements (military contract) that it was supposed to meet. This guy actively blocked and politically attacked anybody who dared to suggest an alternative design path.

Where ego's come to play, companies can get in trouble.

I've had similar issues but they were in software and they are much more complex to explain.

 

[scootergmc]

Not my mind. I've experienced it. My brother experienced it.

Recent (3 years ago) example: My brother was working for a company that balanced satellites and their delivery vehicles. They were pretty much the only game in town for decades and had developed technology to meet the requirements necessary. It was a relatively small company and the Engineers who had been with the company for years and had part ownership of it had moved into senior positions and didn't want to see their own ideas get put by the wayside. My brother ended up leaving the company in frustration because they were stuck in a rut and weren't going to get out of it.

Another big company that he worked for, a few years earlier, one of the EVP's had backed a plan for a major design change, however there were fundamental flaws in the design that would eventually and ultimately prevent the equipment from meeting the requirements (military contract) that it was supposed to meet. This guy actively blocked and politically attacked anybody who dared to suggest an alternative design path.

Where ego's come to play, companies can get in trouble.

I've had similar issues but they were in software and they are much more complex to explain.

And still yet, none of that translates to this discussion.

 

[Killroy1999]

Your mind lives in a weird world. The problem that manufacturers (and their engineers) have is trying to meet the constantly changing emissions standards every 4-6 years. Take these diesels for instance- the major changeover dates were 1/1/98, 1/1/04, 1/1/07, 1/1/12, etc. so on so forth. You really think some old geezer is sitting in a teak lined cigar smoke filled chamber chuckling into their snifters of brandy? I'll pray for your soul.

Sand bagging. I live in engineering today and I have worked on engines myself as a student. 4-6 years is plenty of time for a small subsystem like the emission system to get its act together without going to prison like folks at VAG did. The company should be planning ahead of the regulations instead of fighting it.

 

[scootergmc]

Sand bagging. 4-6 years is plenty of time for a small subsystem like the emission system to get its act together. The company should be planning ahead of the regulations instead of fighting it.

Yes absolutely, all while still trying to meet CAFE standards and all the other ever changing green policies.

 

[cheez]

Sure. Blame the changing policies, not the only engineering team that didn't seem to be able to comply with them.

 

[Climber]

And still yet, none of that translates to this discussion.

And yet you took it into this place because you wrote a somewhat disparaging remark on my comment.

Was I supposed to leave your remark there, tuck my tail between my legs and slink away because of your unfounded comment? :dunno

 

[KooLaid]

Sand bagging. I live in engineering today and I have worked on engines myself as a student. 4-6 years is plenty of time for a small subsystem like the emission system to get its act together without going to prison like folks at VAG did. The company should be planning ahead of the regulations instead of fighting it.

I agree. Then again I don't work in that industry or am a scientist or engineer so what do I really know? :laughing I just deal with them when they get arrested.

 

[scootergmc]

And yet you took it into this place because you wrote a somewhat disparaging remark on my comment.

Was I supposed to leave your remark there, tuck my tail between my legs and slink away because of your unfounded comment? :dunno

Unfounded? It's pretty founded since it has nothing to do with the light/mid/heavy transportation manufacturers and their engineers. And of course you can do what you like. :dunno Feel free to wag your tail.


The emissions (and other) issues here are very compounded and have been written about and addressed at length by both manufacturers, engineers, and objective industry professionals.

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

Not my mind. I've experienced it. My brother experienced it.

Recent (3 years ago) example: My brother was working for a company that balanced satellites and their delivery vehicles. They were pretty much the only game in town for decades and had developed technology to meet the requirements necessary. It was a relatively small company and the Engineers who had been with the company for years and had part ownership of it had moved into senior positions and didn't want to see their own ideas get put by the wayside. My brother ended up leaving the company in frustration because they were stuck in a rut and weren't going to get out of it.

Another big company that he worked for, a few years earlier, one of the EVP's had backed a plan for a major design change, however there were fundamental flaws in the design that would eventually and ultimately prevent the equipment from meeting the requirements (military contract) that it was supposed to meet. This guy actively blocked and politically attacked anybody who dared to suggest an alternative design path.

Where ego's come to play, companies can get in trouble.

I've had similar issues but they were in software and they are much more complex to explain.

Harley Davidson is a great example of that. Here's a company that can't shut up about that one touchdown in high school. Every product has to have an homage to that game. New minds come in and either assimilate or leave. It's definitely a top down program, and the old guard won't be outshined at any cost.

 

[Killroy1999]

Harley Davidson is a great example of that. Here's a company that can't shut up about that one touchdown in high school. Every product has to have an homage to that game. New minds come in and either assimilate or leave. It's definitely a top down program, and the old guard won't be outshined at any cost.

Harley should have opened a electric propulsion lab here in Silicon Valley (25 people). A recruiter contacted me, but they were not looking to pay much for that position, so I don't know how they are going to attract talent that way. Anyone heard any news.

https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose...vidson-silicon-valley-rd-office-jobs-hog.html

 

[Climber]

Unfounded? It's pretty founded since it has nothing to do with the light/mid/heavy transportation manufacturers and their engineers. And of course you can do what you like. :dunno Feel free to wag your tail.


The emissions (and other) issues here are very compounded and have been written about and addressed at length by both manufacturers, engineers, and objective industry professionals.

This is what I was responding to (it was in my post), he didn't understand why they haven't been able to adapt, I was offering an engineers perspective on why they might be having problems.

:thumbup

It has been a learning process for every manufacturer who's basically had the last 10-15 years to get it right. Decades from now, it'll be a no-brainer engineering process, I'm sure.

Deutz used to make some of the most reliable and best performing four-stroke air-cooled diesel engines, but then they had to start complying with Euro standards and especially T4F here in the states which meant water-cooling and SCR and DPF systems. To this day, they still cannot engineer and build a reliable SCR system that just works like all of their competitors have been doing for years. The engines constantly find themselves in limp mode and always when the equipment is needed to work the most reliably. I'm not sure what their problems are with the issue and quite frankly always expected more out of literally the oldest engine manufacturer in the world that's still in business today. You'd think they'd certainly have the money available to bring in the best talent in that regard anyway. :dunno

Also, believe you me, I'm not against a good tune. But yeah, rolling coal doesn't even provide maximum power. All you're doing is over fueling for the sake of a visual effect.

 

[Shaggy]

ISB? The Bros call it a "five nine."

Complete with “I’d rather be Cummin than ‘Strokin” sticker.

 

[cheez]

Complete with “I’d rather be Cummin than ‘Strokin” sticker.

Yeah but is it a 12 valve or 24 valve?

 

[scootergmc]

Yeah but is it a 12 valve or 24 valve?

P-pump only matters to the under 25 crowd- and tractor guys.

 

[wazzuFreddo]

:shhh

Let the "bros" keep thinking they're smarter than the engineers that designed the system. Although, if they just left the shit alone and actually let it do its intended job, they'd be just fine. It'd be even better if they actually educated themselves on why its necessary in the first place. But I digress...

lol, nobody cares what some geek engineer thinks :laughing

(at least that is my impression after 20 years in the engineering business. )

 

[Shaggy]

Yeah but is it a 12 valve or 24 valve?

Psshhhh

The only thing that matters is whether they buy Monster energy drinks in 12 packs or 24 packs.

 

[Kornholio]

ISB? The Bros call it a "five nine."

I'm clearly not a bro. It's an ISB.

This is what I was responding to (it was in my post), he didn't understand why they haven't been able to adapt, I was offering an engineers perspective on why they might be having problems.

Believe me, I understand more than I alluded to in that comment. There's really absolutely no reason that the oldest diesel engine manufacturer in the world should be falling behind the likes of Cummins, Caterpillar, MTU, Detroit Diesel, John Deere and even fucking Kubota and Mitsubishi. :laughing

BTW, CAFE standards don't apply to off-highway diesel engines and that's what I was referring to since Deutz doesn't build on-highway engines for use in the United States.

 

[Jalopyshoppe]

I'm clearly not a bro. It's an ISB.



Believe me, I understand more than I alluded to in that comment. There's really absolutely no reason that the oldest diesel engine manufacturer in the world should be falling behind the likes of Cummins, Caterpillar, MTU, Detroit Diesel, John Deere and even fucking Kubota and Mitsubishi. :laughing

BTW, CAFE standards don't apply to off-highway diesel engines and that's what I was referring to since Deutz doesn't build on-highway engines for use in the United States.

Even Freightliner has their own CA compliant OTR engine now.

The Deutz thing is very perplexing.

As a farther derailment, How much do you know about the Mahindra Diesels? I'm interested in transplanting a Roxor engine/trans/t case into my shitty ass Land Rover (pre smog).

 

[Kornholio]

Even Freightliner has their own CA compliant OTR engine now.

The Deutz thing is very perplexing.

As a farther derailment, How much do you know about the Mahindra Diesels? I'm interested in transplanting a Roxor engine/trans/t case into my shitty ass Land Rover (pre smog).

I used to work for a Mahindra division, actually. Not on the tractor side, though. As far as the transplant, assuming everything lines up and you're not running OTR, you'd probably be okay. What are your concerns?