2018 Race Day Schedule - CHANGES

[stangmx13]

Can we shed some light on how all of this will work out before the weekend? For those who race multiple formula races. Does one time count for both races or are they directly affiliated with the qualifying session associated with that particular Formula race?

i was just thinking about this again.

it doesn't make sense to have 1 time count for 2 separate QPs. say I sign up for FP and F1 and I only qualify in FP. I could use a literbike, which isnt eligible for F1 and should be faster. sure, I could "promise" to only use a bike that is eligible for both. but AFM would have a hard time policing that.

maybe a regulation could say "if signed up for more than one Formula class, the slowest class qualifying time can count for all qualifying sessions". so an F1 time counts for FP, but an FP time doesn't count for F1. but itd prob just be easier to say that u must qualify in both.

of course, none of that fixes anything if someone signs up for Formula races that are combined into the same QP. I have no idea how many racers that affects.

 

[rjbrittain11]

i was just thinking about this again.

it doesn't make sense to have 1 time count for 2 separate QPs. say I sign up for FP and F1 and I only qualify in FP. I could use a literbike, which isnt eligible for F1 and should be faster. sure, I could "promise" to only use a bike that is eligible for both. but AFM would have a hard time policing that.

maybe a regulation could say "if signed up for more than one Formula class, the slowest class qualifying time can count for all qualifying sessions". so an F1 time counts for FP, but an FP time doesn't count for F1. but itd prob just be easier to say that u must qualify in both.

of course, none of that fixes anything if someone signs up for Formula races that are combined into the same QP. I have no idea how many racers that affects.

It does show one time slot for the Formula qualifying but from the looks of things it will be broken up into groups. Formula II/III qualify at the same time for 10 minutes, Formula IV/I qualify at the same time for 10 minutes, and FP qualifies by themselves for 10 min, all equalling the 30 minute time slot.

 

[stangmx13]

It does show one time slot for the Formula qualifying but from the looks of things it will be broken up into groups. Formula II/III qualify at the same time for 10 minutes, Formula IV/I qualify at the same time for 10 minutes, and FP qualifies by themselves for 10 min, all equalling the 30 minute time slot.

ya, them being separate groups was a core assumption for my post. I think lilchap08 is making the same assumption.

 

[Holeshot]

Does one time count for both races or are they directly affiliated with the qualifying session associated with that particular Formula race?

In regards to who can run in qualifying and who can not. Can you sign up for a formula race and NOT run practice sessions on Saturday AND still run qualifying on Saturday? If you're in a formula race you have a chance to qualify Saturday afternoon. If you miss qualifying you're sent to the back of the grid for the start of the race Sunday?

For clarity if you're not signed up for the race(s) you're not allowed to run qualifying. Or am I missing something?

I know a lot of questions but I was hoping to address it all from an overall perspective that others may be asking. Its not meant for any specific class or specific individual.

One time for each Formula class. Multiple sessions would be needed if in multiple Formula races. Each class will have it's own qualifying session and time.

Racers will have to sign up for practice to utilize qualifying for Formula classes. If not signed up for practice, then such a rider will grid in the back.

It does show one time slot for the Formula qualifying but from the looks of things it will be broken up into groups. Formula II/III qualify at the same time for 10 minutes, Formula IV/I qualify at the same time for 10 minutes, and FP qualifies by themselves for 10 min, all equalling the 30 minute time slot.

Correct. I do like Robert's idea if one is running multiple classes, but that's something the BORD hasn't contemplated. Will bring it up at the March meeting.

 

[stangmx13]

Racers will have to sign up for practice to utilize qualifying for Formula classes. If not signed up for practice, then such a rider will grid in the back.

Not cool

 

[thedub]

Racers will have to sign up for practice to utilize qualifying for Formula classes. If not signed up for practice, then such a rider will grid in the back.

I said it on Facebook and I'll say it again here: That is bullshit.

The idea that you can enter a race that uses a qualifying session to establish grid position, but your entry fee does not buy you participation in said qualifying session, is preposterous.

 

[lilchap08]

I said it on Facebook and I'll say it again here: That is bullshit.

The idea that you can enter a race that uses a qualifying session to establish grid position, but your entry fee does not buy you participation in said qualifying session, is preposterous.

a great idea turned to a heavily flawed one. Its not all that applicable to me as I always sign up for practice but for some folks I know its a bit harsh.

 

[Holeshot]

I said it on Facebook and I'll say it again here: That is bullshit.

The idea that you can enter a race that uses a qualifying session to establish grid position, but your entry fee does not buy you participation in said qualifying session, is preposterous.

We didn't raise the price of the race, but did take time from the practice day for it. This is not a different policy from the rule for Formula Pacific, FWIW.

We don't see many riders that do not ride practice and if they do, they miss the entire Saturday. Asking riders to grid up for a single 5-6 lap qualifying session with no previous time on track and set their best lap time...that sounds like a horrible idea.

 

[FourThreeSix]

Yeah, but... because send it.

 

[2wls4ever]

We didn't raise the price of the race, but did take time from the practice day for it. This is not a different policy from the rule for Formula Pacific, FWIW.

We don't see many riders that do not ride practice and if they do, they miss the entire Saturday. Asking riders to grid up for a single 5-6 lap qualifying session with no previous time on track and set their best lap time...that sounds like a horrible idea.

I didn't ride Sat practice last year and then you made riders that raced Sat. after Sonoma. Why the heck does somebody need that much practice and have to pay for it during the race weekend? Blowing it! Paid practice should be reserved for the Friday before incorporated into a track day.

This is not going to increase the participation and numbers to grow the club. Sorry.

Perhaps a requirement of the board members could fall in line with other organized sports series which is they should be required to attend another club series once a year to compare and contrast.

 

[Holeshot]

Perhaps a requirement of the board members could fall in line with other organized sports series which is they should be required to attend another club series once a year to compare and contrast.

Many of us do just that. Personally, I'm in contact regularly with 3 other club administrators (for lack of a better word). Last night was a 45 minute call with CVMA on this very subject. One thing to consider; the days of "practice saturday/ race sunday" may be truly over. That means as a club we have some options; cut back some races and only race on one weekend day, race on both days with a full schedule of races (Ala CVMA) or run an open trackday on Saturday and races on Sunday.

Note; we're TRYING things and working to get a better day/ product for our racers. The club has been asking about qualifying for all the non-FP riders since we gave FP qualifying grids. The thing is, there's no free lunch really. Time on track is $$$ and if we give that away for free, we're not making the most of our weekend. It does suck, but there's a balance between fresh and new and paying the bills.

Either way, we DO see these conversations almost every year before round 1. Pe race season jitters maybe, but none the less, at the end of the weekend it's always smiles and racers accepting the changes as a good thing while giving us some ideas to build on the new changes. We commonly work to incorporate those changes as well.

Let's see how this weekend works out. The weather is showing rain for Friday which means the practice thing may be moot. Qualifying sessions for grid spots; 5-6 laps to make it happen? Sign me up!

 

[thedub]

One thing to consider; the days of "practice saturday/ race sunday" may be truly over. That means as a club we have some options; cut back some races and only race on one weekend day, race on both days with a full schedule of races (Ala CVMA) or run an open trackday on Saturday and races on Sunday.

Yes. That's what I'm talking about. Do that.

Step 1: Trim the fat.
We don't need like 5 classes for 600s and little bikes. We don't need classes that only have like 2-5 racers each round. We don't need a separate class for every odd ball bike that someone wants to race. Get rid of all that garbage.

Step 2: More racing.
Now that you have a trim, concise schedule, run it back to back Saturday and Sunday.

More racing, less practice. That's what every other club on the West coast does.

If people need practice, that's what track days are for. God knows there are enough of them with 4 different track day providers servicing Northern California. Race weekends should be for racing.

I would much rather pay the same entry fees that I do know, but get 4 or 5 races and no practice.

 

[lilchap08]

Yes. That's what I'm talking about. Do that.

Step 1: Trim the fat.
We don't need like 5 classes for 600s and little bikes. We don't need classes that only have like 2-5 racers each round. We don't need a separate class for every odd ball bike that someone wants to race. Get rid of all that garbage.

Step 2: More racing.
Now that you have a trim, concise schedule, run it back to back Saturday and Sunday.

More racing, less practice. That's what every other club on the West coast does.

If people need practice, that's what track days are for. God knows there are enough of them with 4 different track day providers servicing Northern California. Race weekends should be for racing.

I would much rather pay the same entry fees that I do know, but get 4 or 5 races and no practice.

I do agree with this 100%. When I was a new racer I didn’t and it was because I wanted more time to learn and adjust with my bike.

Having never been to cvma in CW direction I would have liked more time with practice but I wouldn’t hav needed 5 practice sessions.

In Short 3 practice sessions + qualifying seems to be a pretty solid compromise if it’s able to be implemented. Most folks only run 4 practice sessions as is if I’m not mistaken.

Again just thinking out loud :cool

 

[stangmx13]

Either way, we DO see these conversations almost every year before round 1. Pe race season jitters maybe, but none the less, at the end of the weekend it's always smiles and racers accepting the changes as a good thing while giving us some ideas to build on the new changes.

Are u concerned that maybe it’s all smiles because the racers you most negatively affected just didn’t show up? Ever look at any sign-up data to see how policy changes are affecting retention?

 

[Holeshot]

We don't have exit interviews so it's hard to know what racers don't return. The majority of the time, based on vocal questions are due to finances or life issue; not how the club is ran/ proclivities of the race day. That's not to say we can't always do better, but it is to say that the racing seems to be the most important thing and IMO, the AFM does an excellent job at that part.

We have helicopters, ambulances, a crew with 20 years experience for many, quality tracks and trophies and overall, a very well respected club in the national club stage. So yeah...when you finish an AFM race, it's an achievement. Smiles.

Am I concerned that racers don't show up? yeah, every single event.

 

[velazcod]

Step 1: Trim the fat.
We don't need like 5 classes for 600s and little bikes. We don't need classes that only have like 2-5 racers each round. We don't need a separate class for every odd ball bike that someone wants to race. Get rid of all that garbage.

100% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We had 2-3 classes this past year with only 1-2 riders, this was noticeable at the banquet where there was championship awards for those riders. That is absolute non-sense.

That is valuable track time and space that could be used for other classes or extending race or practice time.

 

[Holeshot]

Some classes wax/ wane depending on who shows up and what bikes are being sold. All of the super small classes run on the grid with other (fuller) classes. Not that I don't agree, but that's how it's currently being ran.

 

[stangmx13]

in order to get down to a 1 day race schedule, I bet the AFM would have to cut 3-5 races. that could be a lot of classes. WERA and CVMA run 14 and 15 races in a day w/ 2 practice rounds in the morning. but they have fewer racers, so all the stuff before and after each race goes faster. and cutting races is a losing battle w/ time - as more ppl enter other classes or if classes get added to races, the time to grid takes longer still.

the "extra" classes that AFM has compared to other clubs are Legacy, 450, and F1. u could prob cut F1 without pissing ppl off. not sure about the rest though. and even then, I have no idea if the schedule could be re-organized to cut 3 races w/ all those classes gone.

IMO a 1 day schedule is a very tough ask if u want to keep nearly all the existing AFM racers.

We don't have exit interviews so it's hard to know what racers don't return. The majority of the time, based on vocal questions are due to finances or life issue; not how the club is ran/ proclivities of the race day. That's not to say we can't always do better, but it is to say that the racing seems to be the most important thing and IMO, the AFM does an excellent job at that part.

We have helicopters, ambulances, a crew with 20 years experience for many, quality tracks and trophies and overall, a very well respected club in the national club stage. So yeah...when you finish an AFM race, it's an achievement. Smiles.

Am I concerned that racers don't show up? yeah, every single event.

im going to assume u meant "why racers don't return". I agree, thats difficult. but if u see a decrease in Saturday or Formula race participation this year on average, perhaps we can find a correlation or guess at the cause.

 

[Corey]

Why are these changes happening a week before Round 1?

Give all races a "time or laps, whichever comes first" rule. If there is a red flag during the race, and time runs out, the race ends. This way the other classes do not get their races shortened. If there is enough time at the end of the day, the red flag race can continue, or choose to have the results as they stand.

What are the low turn-out classes? How many classes are there? How many classes have been added this year, and how many were cancelled? I counted 69 individual race classes from 2017 Results.

AFM really needs to look into owning Friday Test with Five 20-minute sessions, then race on Saturday and Sunday. 2 included practice groups on Saturday for those racing Saturday, and 2 included practice sessions on Sunday for those racing Sunday.

 

[thedub]

Why are these changes happening a week before Round 1?

What are you talking about? This thread is a month old. The new schedule was finalized at the Feb board meeting and announced the next day. I'm sure it was in the works long before that.

There are no changes happening a week before Rd 1; we are just giving Berto shit and throwing ideas around because that's what you do on BARF in the off-season.