Who else hates the 24's grooved pavevment west of the Caldecott?

Climber

Well-known member
Those stinking things have been there for over a decade.
I thought they had done that in preparation for resurfacing, but after a couple years of no change it became clear that nothing more was going to be done with them.
Bay Area roads suck. Amazing that there could be so much money (and revenue for the state) generated there and yet have the worst roads anywhere that I've been.
Ain't going to change, been going that way for a long time now and people lack the collective will to truly demand change.
 

DataDan

Mama says he's bona fide
I generally don't worry about rain grooves. Yeah, they feel funny but don't really affect the bike. I agree with those who say stay loose on the bars and let them wiggle around. Test front grip with a lane change. Start easy and work up to a more aggressive swerve.

Test rear grip with the brake. From Nick Ienatsch's Sport Riding Techniques:
The rear brake makes an excellent traction sampler during straight-line riding. Learn to apply it and then increase the pressure until it locks momentarily, telling you how much traction a particular road surface is offering. When it starts raining, I often use the rear brake to gauge the traction. It's a quick and safe way to get to know a piece of new pavement or to test traction during adverse conditions.​
I don't recommend locking it, but aggressive brake application when you have a good gap from following traffic will improve your confidence.
 

jwb

Well-known member
I used to hate these but different tires feel perfectly planted on this stretch. If you don't like the way your front end is acting, just change up the rubber.
 

Gary856

Are we having fun yet?
I’ve been in Walnut Creek five years and I still hate the rain grooves on the west side of the tunnel! When I lived in the Southbay, I hated the rain grooves on 85. The ones on 24 are worse and on a downhill slope, LOL!

I'm not familiar with 24 and wonder how it compared to 85. On 85 my car constantly jiggles; I used to feel that on my bikes, but not anymore. Got used to it, perhaps.


Test rear grip with the brake. From Nick Ienatsch's Sport Riding Techniques:
The rear brake makes an excellent traction sampler during straight-line riding. Learn to apply it and then increase the pressure until it locks momentarily, telling you how much traction a particular road surface is offering. When it starts raining, I often use the rear brake to gauge the traction. It's a quick and safe way to get to know a piece of new pavement or to test traction during adverse conditions.​

Does anyone actually do that and find it helpful? I tried it, but since road surfaces vary constantly, how does testing traction on one spot (or 5 or 10 different spots, even) help?

I approach wet road riding this way - starting from the premise that a "clean" wet surface has 80% of the traction of a clean/dry surface, add margin for oil, debris, mud, ride defensively and learn how to deal with small slides on loose surfaces (dirt) with practice. Testing wet traction limits in small increments so when you do loose traction it's gradual, not abrupt.
 

DataDan

Mama says he's bona fide
Doesn't work so well with ABS. :x
It would work great with ABS. Feedback would be, instead of actual lockup, the unmistakable but nearly risk-free activation of ABS. In any case, that was Nick's suggestion. I added not to brake so hard as to lock up.

My basic point is to overcome the sense that traction is reduced by applying brake. Because rain grooves actually don't reduce grip.
 

gixxerjeff

Dogs best friend
Try riding on cobblestones or a metal grated bridge. You have to let the bike do its own thing, keep loose on the controls and ride it out.

^^This^^
When I lived in Vallejo a few years back I commuted every day over the Mare Island lift bridge. Anything below about 36 degrees in the morning got the grated section slick as snot. The more input on the bars, the squirley-er it got.
Steering input done by rumor was the key.
 

Beanzy

Wind free
OP, if you ever ride north on Pleasant Hill Rd. out of Lafayette, not only will you find grooves in the road toward the summit (with Walnut Creek), but the road is a two-lane hill.

Lol.

Still the grooves should not stop you from doing 100 mph downhill past the Geary exit.

Also IIRC the Bay Bridge westbound surface is groovy with metal plates (beyond TI).

Honestly who knew motorcycle riding could be so perilous as well as fun-filled?
 

Slow Goat

Fun Junkie
OP, if you ever ride north on Pleasant Hill Rd. out of Lafayette, not only will you find grooves in the road toward the summit (with Walnut Creek), but the road is a two-lane hill.

Lol.

Still the grooves should not stop you from doing 100 mph downhill past the Geary exit.

Oh, yes! The grooved downhill sweeper just before the Pleasant Hill Rd and Geary split. Can feel weird in a car but great on a bike - as long as it’s dry.
 

Doc_V

Well-known member
While I appreciate all the advice and riding tips, I've been doing this for 39 years, and I've owned many sport bikes too. I'm aware of what's happening and why. And what to do about it. It's that I ride a 900+ pound, steel frame, Yamaha cruiser. I can hang with sport bikes on the twistiest of roads. It's the high speed sweepers that my bike doesn't like; it has a tendency to "wallow" through sweepers above 60 mph. (Frame flex?) Add 70+ mph traffic all around you, while going down hill, and off camber sweepers with rain grooves? That's when the fun starts. I'm just making an observation and it's nice to know I'm not alone.

And I hear you about those steel grated bridges. I live in Alameda, [an island with lots of steel grated bridges] and learned to ride at 13 on a Honda Trail 90 with big old knobby tires. It was an adventure every time I left the island but I learned at an early age about riding over challenging surfaces.
 
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Beanzy

Wind free
Doc_V, maybe ask the motor cops in the LEO forum about how they handle their big bikes on grooved pavement. I imagine the ones still riding 800-pound Harleys might have a few words to share.
 

W800

Noob
While I appreciate all the advice and riding tips, I've been doing this for 39 years, and I've owned many sport bikes too. I'm aware of what's happening and why. And what to do about it. It's that I ride a 900+ pound, steel frame, Yamaha cruiser. I can hang with sport bikes on the twistiest of roads. It's the high speed sweepers that my bike doesn't like; it has a tendency to "wallow" through sweepers above 60 mph. (Frame flex?) Add 70+ mph traffic all around you, while going down hill, and off camber sweepers with rain grooves? That's when the fun starts. I'm just making an observation and it's nice to know I'm not alone.

And I hear you about those steel grated bridges. I live in Alameda, [an island with lots of steel grated bridges] and learned to ride at 13 on a Honda Trail 90 with big old knobby tires. It was an adventure every time I left the island but I learned at an early age about riding over challenging surfaces.

Probably frame flex, tires, steering geometry, and suspension. You should not be able to feel any flex if you shake the bars. It's hard to explain what this feels like, you have to ride a bike that has flex and do it - then ride a bike that doesn't have flex.

The second bike will feel like a single block of metal. Even then, you may still get weird handling. My W800 has a special frame that Kawasaki revised in the 2019 model year. It looks the same as previous ones, but they increased tubing thickness. It has nearly no flex, but the bike follows grooves. It does this probably because of the steering geometry.

Tires appear to change this, but not much.

It's also a handful on roads that are paved badly, but you just have to hang on (but not too tight).

With the above being said - none of this has impact on *traction* - the only time you lose traction on crappy roads is if the bumps are so bad that they send your tires into the air. And this is really only a factor when you are turning. Then what happens is that the bumps throw you into a different line and you have to correct.
 

planegray

Redwood Original
Staff member
Fun read, I'm riding these same roads and I'm with the "Hell Yeah !" folks posting :ride

My humble brag: WB on the am commute was following behind a cruiser that was zipping right along. I was curious to see what he would do in the sweepers. So we pop out of the tunnel and enter the first right hander and sure enough he's lean angle/ speed limited by the floorboards...that are sparking a little. Was vastly entertaining to outside pass on the 700lb Concourse, with a polite wave of course.
Am I a bad person ? :(
 
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W800

Noob
Fun read, I'm riding these same roads and I'm with the "Hell Yeah !" folks posting :ride

My humble brag: WB on the am commute was following behind a cruiser that was zipping right along. I was curious to see what he would do in the sweepers. So we pop out of the tunnel and enter the first right hander and sure enough he's lean angle/ speed limited by the floorboards...that are sparking a little. Was vastly entertaining to outside pass on the 700lb Concourse, with a polite wave of course.
Am I a bad person ? :(

LOL - you are not a bad person. It also works in reverse too. I was riding a Fat Bob on HWY 1 way north of here and got behind someone on a newer BMW adventure tourer. He didn't want to move over to give me room - so I passed in other lane.

Long story short - if you lean off far enough, you can compensate for the lack of ground clearance.

:cool
 

motomania2007

TC/MSF/CMSP/ Instructor
While I appreciate all the advice and riding tips, I've been doing this for 39 years, and I've owned many sport bikes too. I'm aware of what's happening and why. And what to do about it. It's that I ride a 900+ pound, steel frame, Yamaha cruiser. I can hang with sport bikes on the twistiest of roads. It's the high speed sweepers that my bike doesn't like; it has a tendency to "wallow" through sweepers above 60 mph. (Frame flex?) Add 70+ mph traffic all around you, while going down hill, and off camber sweepers with rain grooves? That's when the fun starts. I'm just making an observation and it's nice to know I'm not alone.

And I hear you about those steel grated bridges. I live in Alameda, [an island with lots of steel grated bridges] and learned to ride at 13 on a Honda Trail 90 with big old knobby tires. It was an adventure every time I left the island but I learned at an early age about riding over challenging surfaces.

It would be worthwhile looking to see how your suspension is set up and see if correct spring rate, sag, rebound and compression can damp out oscillations (wallowing) your are experiencing.
 

W800

Noob
It would be worthwhile looking to see how your suspension is set up and see if correct spring rate, sag, rebound and compression can damp out oscillations (wallowing) your are experiencing.

+1 on that.

Also - tire pressure. Try both down and up a little bit. And also try lower in back and then lower in front. Just use common sense and be aware that you are testing.

My old Royal Enfield was supposed to be 20 back and 30 front. Rode much better with 24 back and 30 front. Also had terrible frame flex. I fixed that by keeping weight in my soft saddle bags. It damped out the oscillations.

My W800 is running DOT flat track tires now. Running 33 front and rear. Works perfect on this bike.

Also also - sometimes new tires will be more unstable than older tires.
 
I don't have an issue with the pavement here, I have an issue with some of the drivers.

Also, why is it that with heavy traffic in the AM we can go thru at full speed, in the afternoon it slows down to 40 mph even if there is no traffic on the approach. Also delivery and big rigs in the middle tunnels... /Rant
 

W800

Noob
I don't have an issue with the pavement here, I have an issue with some of the drivers.

Also, why is it that with heavy traffic in the AM we can go thru at full speed, in the afternoon it slows down to 40 mph even if there is no traffic on the approach. Also delivery and big rigs in the middle tunnels... /Rant

I think AM traffic almost always faster. This seems to apply everywhere.

This is because it's almost always commuters (who know the roads).

Afternoon traffic is a mix of commuters coming home from work (fast) and rando traffic (slow).

In a line of cars, the slowest driver sets the pace for miles back.
 
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