Who else hates the 24's grooved pavevment west of the Caldecott?

[Doc_V]

Every time I ride west, through the Caldecott tunnel, is a total pucker experience for me; at least until the Broadway exit, where 24 turns to asphalt. It's bad enough that everyone drives *fast*, but it has downhill, off camber sweepers, and thanks to those damn rain grooves in the pavement, you're also lacking at least 40% of your usual contact patch. Oh,and let's not forget the tendency to tram-line. Clearly the civil engineers who came up with this brilliant section of highway weren't thinking about motorcycles.

East bound isn't much more fun, when the tunnel turns pitch black, and your wearing sunglasses.

While we're at it, the south bound 880 to 238 underpass used to be a nightmare for the same reason; i.e. a curve, with shit grooved surface, and riding into darkness. At least people go slower through there.

I'm sure plenty of you have great bikes, with gobs of traction, but I can't be the only. What say you?

 

[hophead]

I love westbound through the tunnel, always take the south one, #2 lane best, You can pass those in #1 lane on the exit and fend off the #1 lane coming outta the north tunnel. Pavement grooves just separate the inexperienced from the truly dumbass risktakers.

 

[Doc_V]

Ah... You're one of the guys with gobs of traction. And exp isn't the issue; I've been riding for nearly 40 years, my bike just doesn't like it... at all. I always have to stick to the slow lane, but even then, people fly up on me, then pass at +20.

 

[tgrrdr]

I know they can be annoying but they're not really rain grooves. The pavement was ground a few years ago to smooth out the bumps and the "grooves" are produced by the diamond grinder they used. Grinding also helps increase surface friction when the concrete pavement has been worn smooth over time.

 

[KnifeySpoony]

I find tire profile changes the tendency to tramline a lot. When I have flatspotted rear from commuting, the bike tramlines more and generally feels unstable over pavement irregularities, whether upright or at lean. When I put on fresh rubber, the bike tracks great and feels so much more stable.

 

[motomania2007]

So I've been riding for 50+ years.

Rain grooves have been squirmy uncomfortable things the entire time.

But I've also never ever had an issue as far as controlling the motorcycle relating to rain grooves.

Sure the bike feels weird and wants to move around underneath you but if you relax your elbows and allow the bike to wiggle and find its grip it will do just fine.

when I find when I'm talking to someone that's struggling with rain grooves is that two things are usually happening:
1) They are gripping the bars too hard and fighting the bike wiggle caused by the rain grooves. And that makes it worse.
2) They start looking really near in front of them instead of further out and that makes everything really urgent which makes your control even less accurate and even more jerky which adds to the feeling of being out of control the motorcycle.

So what's the solution: keep your eyes up looking further ahead and a good grip on the handlebars with your arms relaxed and allowing the bike to wiggle and find its traction and remember to breathe.

And I know it's easy for me to say this but I'm telling you from experience this works really well and all the time in my almost 500,000 mi of road riding experience.

 

[atoyf]

that section does feel “wobbly”, but i do like to take it rather fast, the high speed sweepers excite me :teeth, but as someone pointed out, take the exit in the far right lane(s), until you feel more comfy..

 

[Maddevill]

I hate to break it to you, but roadway engineers probably don't even think about motorcycles when they do planning for construction or repair. If they did, chipseal would be outlawed

Mad

 

[davidji]

I'm sure plenty of you have great bikes, with gobs of traction, but I can't be the only. What say you?

Not sure where traction comes into it*, if the problem is the tires tramlining in the pavement grooves.

What bike, front tire, & tire size? Tire pressure?

The only bike I remember feeling weird there was a scooter demo from Rockridge 2 wheels. I don't remember the front tire, and didn't check pressure, but it's common for scooter tires to have a center groove, and those are notorious for tramlining. Apparently it's also common for demo bikes to have low tire pressure.

I've had a semi-knobby 90/90-21 front that would be affected by the grooves a bit on 580 at lean. I don't remember noticing anything on 24W, where for me anyway speeds and lean angle were less.



*Any traction issues I've had on 24 had to do with slick as snot when wet surfaces in the rain. I lost front & rear in sequence once merging onto 24 across a wet gore point, but kept the bike up. My other traction issue was in one of the slick as snot when wet tar snakes that follow the curve of the road as you exit bore #2 eastbound in the rain.

 

[nebulous]

Wife and i used to love Westbound Caldecott, slow lane in the old tunnel, with our shockless old Camry. A ride of roller coaster proportions.

FWIW, a mc i had with a 110/17 front wheel and S/T tires tracked the rain grooves treacherously. 120/17 and S21s not at all. So i'm thinking tread and tire size make all the difference.

As for the quality of our roads, CA seems to have other priorities.

 

[bikewanker]

I hate to break it to you, but roadway engineers probably don't even think about motorcycles when they do planning for construction or repair. If they did, chipseal would be outlawed

Mad

This!
Early in my riding days there was an all metal grated bridge surface that bothered me. Always made it across and didn’t know anyone that didn’t. Of course I never planned to ride that bridge.

 

[danate]

When I used to commute from Oakley to Burlingame, that part was actually my favorite part of the commute. I also liked to take it faster then I'm willing to say on a public forum.

I don't think those are really rain grooves and they have plenty of traction. If you are going a speed that makes you feel nervous, then slow down. If you want to improve your cornering confidence, take a class. It really helps!

 

[dravnx]

Try riding on cobblestones or a metal grated bridge. You have to let the bike do its own thing, keep loose on the controls and ride it out.

 

[W800]

So what's the solution: keep your eyes up looking further ahead and a good grip on the handlebars with your arms relaxed and allowing the bike to wiggle and find its traction and remember to breathe.

And I know it's easy for me to say this but I'm telling you from experience this works really well and all the time in my almost 500,000 mi of road riding experience.

Yes! I do the same thing. The other thing I do, and I know it's weird - is I will jiggle the bars to tell me if the bike is speed wobbling or not. I always just settles down and gets back into the "groove." But that little trick reminds me it's not the bike!

That particular section of road coming West is nice and fun. What's cool about it is that many of the car drivers just open it up - so if you do the same, your speed differential is not obvious.

 

[W800]

Ah... You're one of the guys with gobs of traction. And exp isn't the issue; I've been riding for nearly 40 years, my bike just doesn't like it... at all. I always have to stick to the slow lane, but even then, people fly up on me, then pass at +20.

But how can you tell that you have lost contact patch? As long as my wheels are touching pavement most of the time, my bike sticks better on rough roads than smooth ones.

This is even more true in rain.

It's the same principle like if you try and do a donut in a car on new pavement and it just easily lights up. But on rough pavement, you have to really try to get the tires to break traction.

Not that I have ever done that, LOL.

For my bike to lose 40 percent of contact patch, I would have to have my tires not be in contact with the pavement 40 percent of the time, more or less.

 

[Gary856]

Doc V, do you run bias ply tires on your cruiser? Aren't bias ply tires more sensitive (than radial) to rain grooves? Have you played with different pressure, and tried different brands?

 

[needles]

I’ve been in Walnut Creek five years and I still hate the rain grooves on the west side of the tunnel! When I lived in the Southbay, I hated the rain grooves on 85. The ones on 24 are worse and on a downhill slope, LOL!

 

[Bumpits]

The rain grooves are perfectly fine. You can go way faster on it than you and everyone else thinks they can. YOu can feel the collective butt pucker in traffic as everyone bunches up and goes slow through the esses. I absolutely love flying through there.

 

[ScottRNelson]

I find tire profile changes the tendency to tramline a lot.

And I think it's the tread pattern that makes all the difference whether or not your front tire will follow rain grooves or not. Back when I used sport touring tires on the Ducati Monster and ST2, the Bridgestone BT020 and BT021 both had issues following grooves. When I switched to Pirelli Angel and Avon Storm, those totally ignored rain grooves.

My current Bridgestone AX41 tires followed grooves more when new than now that they have a couple of thousand miles on them. The Heidenau K60 Scout seems to ignore them.

There are some really annoying grooves on the freeway around here. Fortunately I rarely have a reason to get on the freeway - there is always an alternate route available.

 

[Motorcycletutor]

Try weaving across those grooves

I am frequently changing lane position so i find that helps me stay out of the grooves . Ymmv