Uh what?

[ViperThreat]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the wall of text, but I'm trying to explain the situation as best I can.


Roommate and I entered the 101 southbound just north of the bridge when we were quickly pulled over. There were 2 officers in the vehicle, and it was pretty clear that one of them was new on the job as the other was instructing him through every single step, having him shred one ticket that was improperly filled out, and re-write a new one.

They ended up saying they used Lidar to catch us doing 73 in a 55. We had only just entered the freeway and hadn't seen a sign, so we assumed it was 65 since that was what traffic was doing. We told them so, but they insisted on giving us tickets anyway.

Long story short, we just got our tickets in the mail, and despite the fact that myself and my roommate were written up for the exact same infraction, my ticket was $51 more expensive than his - totaling just over $400.


--------------------

I'm planning on fighting the ticket, but I'd like to go into court armed with as much information as possible to fight it. Here are the questions I have:


1. Is it acceptable to use one Lidar reading to give a ticket to two separate vehicles and riders?

2. How is it possible that my ticket is more expensive than my roomates? Given that the ticket was for the exact same offense, at the exact same time, we live in the same household, both have clean driving records, both make similar wages, and both have a similar credit score? I honestly can't for the life of me figure out why my ticket is more expensive?



Thanks for your help!

 

[Junkie]

That's odd that your fines are different. Same speed written on the ticket? What VC?

 

[ViperThreat]

That's odd that your fines are different. Same speed written on the ticket? What VC?

22349(a)

 

[Junkie]

That doesn't make sense.

22349.
(a) Except as provided in Section 22356, no person may drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than 65 miles per hour.

I'm not LE but it appears the correct code would be 22348(a)

22348. (a) Notwithstanding subdivision (b) of Section 22351, a person shall not drive a vehicle upon a highway with a speed limit established pursuant to Section 22349 or 22356 at a speed greater than that speed limit.

http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/2018-JC-BAIL.pdf is the traffic bail schedule.

For either code, cost should be $238 for 1-15 over, $367 for 16-25 (what you did), $490 for 26+.

Does the courtesy notice break down the cost or just have a total?

 

[ViperThreat]

Does the courtesy notice break down the cost or just have a total?

Just the total.


At this point, I'm pretty sure that I have enough evidence to put the officer's evidence into question, which should be enough to get the ticket thrown out. My main goal here is to identify as many errors as possible in his evidence.

I think the fact that the fees were different is also helpful to my case - so far as I can tell, it must be a filing mistake of some sort. Given the number of mistakes that are already documented, this would be more fuel to the fire.

 

[Junkie]

You are guilty of 22349(a) given that you were going faster than 65, but if that's the code you're cited for it should be 7mph over and therefore a smaller fine than 17mph over.

 

[ViperThreat]

You are guilty of 22349(a) given that you were going faster than 65, but if that's the code you're cited for it should be 7mph over and therefore a smaller fine than 17mph over.

That would make sense. Thanks

 

[orbframe]

Then contest it.

 

[TheRiddler]

You can't use a LIDAR reading from one vehicle to write a ticket to a separate one. But LIDAR works in seconds, and he very easily could've have hit you both separately. Or used LIDAR on one and visually estimated the other...which is really easy if you're riding together at the same speed.

Look at the speeds and the codes for both tickets and confirm they're the same. Odd to get hit with 22349a (max speed 65) if it's a 55 zone unless he was cutting you a 10mph break. Depending on the road, I'd expect a 55mph speed limit on a freeway to be a 22350 citation.

 

[ateamer]

Address, wages and credit score have nothing at all to do with fines.

 

[KooLaid]

Don't pay it. I don't know what the end result would be as of yet, but I know they won't suspend your license now. Maybe they'll put you in jail with your driver's license still in tact? lol

 

[Shaggy]

Odd to get hit with 22349a (max speed 65) if it's a 55 zone unless he was cutting you a 10mph break. Depending on the road, I'd expect a 55mph speed limit on a freeway to be a 22350 citation.

No element of “unsafe for conditions” to be met. All that needs to be proved is that he was going over 65mph.

:dunno

 

[ViperThreat]

Then contest it.

Yeah, I think I already said that I plant to twice now.

You can't use a LIDAR reading from one vehicle to write a ticket to a separate one. But LIDAR works in seconds, and he very easily could've have hit you both separately. Or used LIDAR on one and visually estimated the other...which is really easy if you're riding together at the same speed.

Address, wages and credit score have nothing at all to do with fines.

That's what I figured, but I'm honestly looking for any reason why my ticket would be more than my roommates given that every single variable I can account for is the same.

Don't pay it. I don't know what the end result would be as of yet, but I know they won't suspend your license now. Maybe they'll put you in jail with your driver's license still in tact? lol

Nah, I'll just use my Jedi mind tricks to convince them to let me go free.

 

[planegray]

...................................
Nah, I'll just use my Jedi mind tricks to convince them to let me go free.

Uh, yeah.... because that's worked so well for you already !


NOTE: I'm NOT a LEO

 

[Shaggy]

That's what I figured, but I'm honestly looking for any reason why my ticket would be more than my roommates given that every single variable I can account for is the same.

Just thinking outside the box, as I'm not sure how the court decides what the fine is.

-Is there a difference in points on your driving record?
-Are there different addresses listed on your DLs?
-Are your appearance date/locations the same?

 

[bojangle]

The charges, speeds, and speed limits listed on both cites are identical?

Did you have any priors on your driving record that he didn't have? I'm not sure if that factors in to the fine or not.

 

[NorCalBusa]

Or used LIDAR on one and visually estimated the other...which is really easy if you're riding together at the same speed.

Point of order; in radar and LIDAR enforcement, the approved technique is for the officer to first Visually Estimate the speed and then verify that estimate with the device.

I have little doubt that happens with less frequency in the field, especially with LIDAR- officers point and shoot, read the speed and then assume it is gospel. It is unlikely they'd fess up to it in court, they've been trained otherwise.

This doesn't help the OP figure out the different fines of course.

 

[423yjl]

Don’t think of it as you have to pay more than him, think of it as he gets to pay less and be happy for him.

 

[TheRiddler]

Point of order; in radar and LIDAR enforcement, the approved technique is for the officer to first Visually Estimate the speed and then verify that estimate with the device.

I have little doubt that happens with less frequency in the field, especially with LIDAR- officers point and shoot, read the speed and then assume it is gospel. It is unlikely they'd fess up to it in court, they've been trained otherwise.

This doesn't help the OP figure out the different fines of course.

Visually estimated and confirmed with LIDAR and solely visually estimated the other.

Mr. Pedantic :thumbup

 

[ViperThreat]

Just thinking outside the box, as I'm not sure how the court decides what the fine is.

-Is there a difference in points on your driving record?
-Are there different addresses listed on your DLs?
-Are your appearance date/locations the same?

1. I'm not sure how many points that my roomate has on his license. I have one point on my record from 2 years ago.

2. We live together and have the same address on our DLs.

3. Locations are the same, his appear-by date is exactly one week after mine.