Rattling catalytic converter

[oldapeman]

This is about my old MBZ E430 1998, so if the mods think it should not be here, please move it into the basement or the attic.

I love my old Mercedes, it is fast, comfortable, paid for, and quiet, or at least it used to be. It has developed the rattle that seems to come from inside one or more of the catalytic converters. The car still runs great (only 134K miles, so it is barely broken in), and there are no check engine lights indicating that the problem is anything is other than just noise.

Through an on-line parts supplier I can pick up two new 49 state replacements for about $1000, plus installation (might do it myself). Or, I can pick up the California approved versions for about $1800. I really do not want to spend anything, but that is me.

I know I will need to get this smog checked in another year, so if I use the 49 state version I may get called on it and fail. I do not like that risk, since I need to keep the car registered and on the road. The interesting thing is that I am guessing there is no way the smog guy would know if the car had the cats replaced back in Utah (where the car was originally titled and spent its early life, and where use of the 49 state replacements is legal), or that it happened here in CA, where it is not (maybe).

I am also wondering if there is a dismantler around who would sell me the entire system for even less than the megabucks the new part costs. I have emailed a couple, but never got a response.

Also, what happens if I just take it in to a muffler shop? Don't they pretty much assemble some standardized parts and form up their own system to fit the car?

So you mechanical gurus, do you have any cost and time-saving advice?

If you don't I will come park it outside your window and leave the engine running, so you will be forever serenaded by the percussive cacophony.

Really, I would like to hear your elegant solutions.

 

[Kornholio]

It's a 49-state car. You don't have to buy the 50-state cats.

 

[joespeedfast]

What I would do;
Locate a reputable(five-star, no BAR complaints, excellent word-of-mouth) smog diagnose and repair certified independant auto repair shop.
Pay the $90?(one hour) for a complete and thorough test and evaluation of your cars state-of-tune and emmissions/system health and, most specifically, where is the noise coming from and do you or, do you not, need a CAT replaced.
From there, if you do, find the cheapest local muffler shop to replace only the one(if) you need. Should not cost over $250 bucks.

 

[auntiebling]

i suggest you buy a piece of property in a smog-less county and register the car there before the cats completely fail. yours wouldn't be the first where the cost of replacement converters exceeds the value (in the KBB sense of bullshit) of the car. especially the middle age german varieties.

if you go the 49 state unit route, i wish you luck finding an online or other vendor that will even ship them to you using a CA address. since you're ~1 year away from the test, they might pass a visual look-see by the technician as to looking like they might not be stock, but might have been there long enough to be grandfathered in.

It's a 49-state car. You don't have to buy the 50-state cats.

there was a rather lengthy thread about this not too long ago, and the consensus was something like "CA is idiotic, and you might have to update your 49 state cats to CA specific ones"

found it: http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=429865&highlight=smog+state

a rattle might just be the heat shield

 

[Mr. White]

It's a 49-state car. You don't have to buy the 50-state cats.

This is 100% false. ALL cars registered in CA must use a 50-state cat. It's not even legal to sell a 49-state cat in CA.

Edit, here's what I wrote in the other thread:

You can not install a 49-state aftermarket cat on any vehicle registered in CA. You can't legally buy or sell an aftermarket 49-state cat in CA.

It is illegal to advertise, sell, buy or install a used cat in CA. It doesn't matter if it's an aftermarket or original (OE) used cat.

It make no difference what-so-ever if your car is 49 or 50-state. If it's registered in CA, the above laws apply to you.

If you need to replace the cat on your car/truck, you have 2 options. Buy a new OE cat from the dealer, or buy a new aftermarket 50-state CARB compliant cat. The aftermarket cat MUST have an EO number printed on it that corresponds to the make, year, model and engine of your vehicle.

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...ftermktcat.htm

 

[Kornholio]

Not all 50-state OEM cats will work with their 49-state counterparts. The setup isn't always the same. Yet you can still register and operate 49-state vehicles in California. Like I said, NO ONE is going to bat an eye if you put a new 49-state converter on a 49-state vehicle in this state.

 

[Mr. White]

No you can't. I've worked in the automotive parts distribution business for 13 years, specifically European car parts.

Here's a working link: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermktcat/aftermktcat.htm

When did you have your cat replaced? Was it prior to 2009?

You can't legally sell or install a 49-state cat in CA. If you somehow get your hands on one and install it, a smog tech can, and probably will, fail the visual inspection if the cat(s) on your vehicle look new, and don't have an EO number printed on them that correspond to the make/year/model/engine of your vehicle.

 

[Kornholio]

Just had it done last month.

And I've worked in exhaust for the last 10 years...with CARB. I'm not going to turn this into a pissing contest. There's letter of the law and spirit of the law. Installing a 50-state cat on a 49-state car means nothing but more money for the manufacturer in most cases. I see people installing 49-state converters on 49-state cars all the time. Never had a problem.

 

[Mr. White]

Just had it done last month.

And I've worked in exhaust for the last 10 years...with CARB. I'm not going to turn this into a pissing contest. There's letter of the law and spirit of the law. Installing a 50-state cat on a 49-state car means nothing but more money for the manufacturer in most cases. I see people installing 49-state converters on 49-state cars all the time. Never had a problem.

Just because people do it, doesn't mean it's legal. You're taking a big $$ risk installing an expensive 49-state cat on a CA registered car.

 

[Kornholio]

Just because people do it, doesn't mean it's legal. You're taking a big $$ risk installing an expensive 49-state cat on a CA registered car.

Perhaps. The OP doesn't have to take my advice then. If he's out of state and buys an OEM replacement converter for his car and then comes back with it still on, no one is going to bat an eye. If that were the issue, you wouldn't be allowed to leave the OEM 49-state converter on the vehicle when you first bring it to California.

 

[Mr. White]

Perhaps. The OP doesn't have to take my advice then. If he's out of state and buys an OEM replacement converter for his car and then comes back with it still on, no one is going to bat an eye. If that were the issue, you wouldn't be allowed to leave the OEM 49-state converter on the vehicle when you first bring it to California.

The laws apply to aftermarket cats, not OEM.

 

[Kornholio]

The laws apply to aftermarket cats, not OEM.

Perhaps I misread the OP, but I thought this whole discussion was regarding buying an OEM converter from his dealer?

 

[Mr. White]

Through an on-line parts supplier I can pick up two new 49 state replacements for about $1000, plus installation (might do it myself). Or, I can pick up the California approved versions for about $1800. I really do not want to spend anything, but that is me.

Perhaps I misread the OP, but I thought this whole discussion was regarding buying an OEM converter from his dealer?

Quoted the important part.

 

[Kornholio]

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

 

[msethhunter]

The laws apply to aftermarket cats, not OEM.

Which is why you have no clue what you are talking about. I worked in dealerships for YEARS. You CAN legally sell AND install a cat convertor that is 49 state. But, you have to be able to prove that the vehicle is a 49 state vehicle. There is guidence out there for it, even for getting a convertor in the aftermarket. The link you provided (read your link next time) provides guidence for people looking to #1, purchase an aftermarket cat convertor, and #2, submit for approval to sell an aftermarket cat convertor and the testing requirements it must go through before it's approved.

In the Header of the article posted from your link:

This is a new Evaluation Procedure. For clarity the proposed text
is shown in normal type.

Now, if you go to the proper page, it talks about installing the proper parts on the vehicle by looking at the "Vehicle Emission Control Information" sticker that is usually under the hood, which will guide you to the proper parts for your vehicle. There will be a difference in the sticker between the two 49 and 50 state cars.

And then there is this, a "Q and A" link provided for guidence on how this all works, in simple terms.

Q. Federal vehicles are not listed in California application catalog. How do I determine what
catalytic converter to install on a federal vehicle?
A. Find a catalytic converter exempted for a California vehicle that is of the same make,
model, and model year as the federal vehicle, except for the engine family. Install the
catalytic converter on the federal vehicle and make a note on your invoice and warranty card
that it is a federal vehicle.

So, care to retract your statement about having to install a 50 state cat on a 49 state vehicle? And also about not being able to sell a 49 state cat in CA? The guidence clearly states that that is exactly what you should do. When a web site says "Not for sale in California," That is usually a blanket statement to CYA, so they don't end up getting fined. If you produce the proper documentation that your vehicle is a 49 state car, they will sell it to you if they are worth a shit. And most parts stores are to afraid to have CARB come knocking on their door.

But yes, it is legal, provided the right circumstances.

 

[Hubbard 0]

Ran into this problem when the cat broke on my Crown Vic. No site will sell an exhaust part that has a cat to a CA resident. Junkyards face a huge fine for selling those parts. From what I gathered the only option available to me was an OEM replacement from the dealer at $1800 + install.

My car from out of state and hasn't even been here a year.

 

[joespeedfast]

Ran into this problem when the cat broke on my Crown Vic. No site will sell an exhaust part that has a cat to a CA resident. Junkyards face a huge fine for selling those parts. From what I gathered the only option available to me was an OEM replacement from the dealer at $1800 + install.

My car from out of state and hasn't even been here a year.

Simple. Just like the guy with the Merc. Pick up the phone, shop a few local muffler shops that sell and install cats, pay the $250(or less), DONE.
It will be a high quality Cali aprroved, BAR certified for your car cat and, have an EO number on it so that the poor, scared smog tech can pass the car... :laughing

 

[Kornholio]

He'd pass it with a 49-state converter too....since it's a 49-state car.

 

[Hubbard 0]

My intermediate solution was to remove the deffective cat since the car had passed SMOG a few months prior. I wasn't going to just order a new cat pipe from summit or jegs, have it sent to an out of state friend and then have them send to me.

If a shop can do it for $200-300, that's way better though.

 

[joespeedfast]

He'd pass it with a 49-state converter too....since it's a 49-state car.

While I don't dis-agree, it's my belief that if the car is either registered in Cali or soon to be, the muffller shop( in my rec. scenario) is on the hook(with BAR) to install the Cali approved(premium quality) caty.