Jeep Gladiator Driver Voids Warranty For Driving In The Mud

Ogg

Oggito ergo sum
detailed description of warranty service avoidance

So what's the consumer's recourse in all of this?
I've got an issue where I suspect the dealer is kicking the can down the road because to properly diagnose and fix is likely a mountain of work, and the problem is subtle enough that when the engine does blow up, it'll be out of warranty.
 

TheRobSJ

Großer Mechaniker
So what's the consumer's recourse in all of this?
I've got an issue where I suspect the dealer is kicking the can down the road because to properly diagnose and fix is likely a mountain of work, and the problem is subtle enough that when the engine does blow up, it'll be out of warranty.

I had a rattle show up in the dash of my 2021 Acura a month after I bought it. And it’s still there now. I know what needs to be done to fix it (as I have fixed stuff like this before when I worked for Acura). And I know how little the factory will pay the dealer for the work, so in turn how little the technician will make to do the work. So I’m almost certain that if I were to bring it in the dealer to have that dealt with under warranty, the tech would somehow not hear the noise.

So why am I mentioning this? Well, in the pre Covid days, what could be done, and what I usually did when I was at Acura, was that the customer takes the technician or service manager with them. Have a rattle? Let’s go out and you point it out. Not the water bottle under the seat, not the seat belt from your baby seat in the back, no...that noise. This accomplishes many things. It is proof of life for the concern. Now it’s been acknowledged that it exists. And now there is a burden on them to fix it. Or if it’s “normal” then they have to explain why and/or show you that it does the same thing on another vehicle.
 

Holeshot

Super Moderator
Staff member
How much do consumer care about rattles (in new and older cars)? Are they willing to pay to make them go away?
 

TheRobSJ

Großer Mechaniker
How much do consumer care about rattles (in new and older cars)? Are they willing to pay to make them go away?

When the vehicle is still under warranty? Oh it’s the end of the world. This is entirely unacceptable for a $xx,xxx car. I’m gonna lemon law this thing! And that’s for one faint tick that happens once every couple weeks you can hear only if you have the radio off and bomb a speed bump at 35mph.

When it’s off warranty? Could have a constant rattle in the door that I wouldn’t even need to spend any time diagnosing since I’ve fixed it before in other vehicles. We call the customer and ask if they want to pay an hour of time for me to go into the door and fix it. It’s how much? Nahhhhh, that ok. I’ve been living with it for months already. I’ll just turn up the stereo.


Ok a bit extreme ends of the spectrum there. But it’s pretty much along those lines.
 

mikev

»»───knee───►
A rattle that's so common you know how to fix it without even diagnosing, that seems like a problem in the build/manufacture process right?

I mean my Magnum makes all kinds of shitty noises, but it's a 12 year old Dodge.
 

berth

Well-known member
We're talking modern cars. Small, insulated isolation chambers. We're not talking a leaking, chitty chitty bang bang VW bug.

Rattles absolutely matter. When they redid the A/C on my Jeep, lo and behold, a rattle showed up, but they fixed it. I had that thing back to them the next day.
 

TheRobSJ

Großer Mechaniker
A rattle that's so common you know how to fix it without even diagnosing, that seems like a problem in the build/manufacture process right?

I mean my Magnum makes all kinds of shitty noises, but it's a 12 year old Dodge.

When you’re a dealership technician, you see the same things come in over and over again enough to the point where you may know what’s wrong just based on a customer’s description of a noise.

If I was at an independent shop where there’s a huge variety of carlines that roll through the door, I could never be at that point. Plus, at an independent shop, they hardly ever have to diagnose rattles because as I just said, nobody wants to actually pay their own money to fix them.
 

Kornholio

:wave
Plus, at an independent shop, they hardly ever have to diagnose rattles because as I just said, nobody wants to actually pay their own money to fix them.

Especially when they're largely so easy to fix on your own in the first place. :dunno
 

TheRobSJ

Großer Mechaniker
Especially when they're largely so easy to fix on your own in the first place. :dunno

Usually it’s take the two crinkly water bottles out from under each seat, the other two half full ones clunking around in the door pockets, the twisted up seat belt knocking away on the door sill, and the sports equipment rolling around in the trunk.

It never ceases to amaze me when I get a squeak/rattle complaint and the car is an outright pigpen like that. People could drastically quiet down their interiors by just keeping the vehicle neat and tidy.
 

Kornholio

:wave
Usually it’s take the two crinkly water bottles out from under each seat, the other two half full ones clunking around in the door pockets, the twisted up seat belt knocking away on the door sill, and the sports equipment rolling around in the trunk.

It never ceases to amaze me when I get a squeak/rattle complaint and the car is an outright pigpen like that. People could drastically quiet down their interiors by just keeping the vehicle neat and tidy.

I had a vibration in the dash on my truck when it was brand new. It was easy to chase it down and all I need to do was route a wiring harness further away from a piece of plastic and zip tie it. Took all of 30 minutes of my time.
 

TheRobSJ

Großer Mechaniker
The dash rattle in my Acura is a minimum two hour affair and quite the jigsaw puzzle. I haven’t taken it in to the dealer because like I said, they’re probably going to “unable to duplicate” me. And also because, well...even though I don’t work for them anymore, I am still the best person to do the job. So why should I trust someone else? I’ll just have to spend a couple hours one of these days working for free I suppose.
 

Kornholio

:wave
The dash rattle in my Acura is a minimum two hour affair and quite the jigsaw puzzle. I haven’t taken it in to the dealer because like I said, they’re probably going to “unable to duplicate” me. And also because, well...even though I don’t work for them anymore, I am still the best person to do the job. So why should I trust someone else? I’ll just have to spend a couple hours one of these days working for free I suppose.

You're not at Acura anymore? When did that happen?
 

mercurial

Well-known member
The dash rattle in my Acura is a minimum two hour affair and quite the jigsaw puzzle. I haven’t taken it in to the dealer because like I said, they’re probably going to “unable to duplicate” me. And also because, well...even though I don’t work for them anymore, I am still the best person to do the job. So why should I trust someone else? I’ll just have to spend a couple hours one of these days working for free I suppose.

Yea I guess that's a charitable position for you to take, particularly since you have empathy as an insider. My dash rattle was happening every 30 seconds or so, so it was pretty easy to point out in the multiple ride-alongs I did, with the techs. Also, it was a known issue of the model, with a known fix.
 

Alan_Hepburn

Well-known member
I keep seeing references to the technicians being paid based on what "the book" says a job should take - does that mean that they are working as contractors rather than punching a clock? I always assumed that for warranty work the dealership got paid by the manufacturer based on "the book" but the guy doing the work got paid from when he clocked in at the start of his shift until he clocked out at the end...
 

Kornholio

:wave
I keep seeing references to the technicians being paid based on what "the book" says a job should take - does that mean that they are working as contractors rather than punching a clock? I always assumed that for warranty work the dealership got paid by the manufacturer based on "the book" but the guy doing the work got paid from when he clocked in at the start of his shift until he clocked out at the end...

It means they're being paid based on the SRT (Standard Repair Time) that the repair book states it should take a journeyman to complete the work. SRTs are determined by the manufacturer but repair facilities can challenge them, usually once a year.

Whether or not a tech is paid by the clock or not is determined by the shop they work for. My guys are paid clock time regardless of how long it takes them to do the work, but that doesn't mean they can take their time and fuck off.
 
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TheRobSJ

Großer Mechaniker
Yea I guess that's a charitable position for you to take, particularly since you have empathy as an insider. My dash rattle was happening every 30 seconds or so, so it was pretty easy to point out in the multiple ride-alongs I did, with the techs. Also, it was a known issue of the model, with a known fix.

Ahhhh but here’s the thing with Covid. We can’t do ride alongside anymore. So what was once a very helpful part of the diagnostic process to make sure the customer’s and my time are not wasted? It’s off the table right now. So now things are left to be lost in translation by a customer telling a service writer what’s wrong. And then Murphy’s Law to kick in when I drive the car and it’s totally silent.

Before when I would ride along with them driving their car, if they couldn’t make the noise happen, then we didn’t even bother writing the car up.
 

berth

Well-known member
It means they're being paid based on the SRT (Standard Repair Time) that the repair book states it should take a journeyman to complete the work. SRTs are determined by the manufacturer but repair facilities can challenge them, usually once a year.

As with everything, these times can be gamed and abused.

But fundamentally, not being in the business, but outside as a layman, I've always liked the idea of SRT.

Simply because if you're paid the SRT rate, then a novice technician, in theory, would take more time on the job, and thus get paid less. An experienced technician would take less time and thus get paid more. Ideally, the experienced tech gets paid more because they can do more work in the day than a novice tech, and, again ideally, it all works out in the end.

The dark side is the edge cases and abuses at all levels (factory, management, techs).

I know one anecdote about replacing the sparkplug on a 8 cylinder 700 series BMW. Apparently, half of the plug are really had to get to, so one tech was simply doing "half the job".

On the other hand, a friend of mine knew one task very well that others didn't like, so would try to get those jobs so he could knock them out quickly.

So, anyway, on paper it sounds like a good idea to fairly pay technicians, to try to limit fraud against the consumer, etc. but I don't know how well it all works out in the end in the real world.
 

msethhunter

Well-known member
The dash rattle in my Acura is a minimum two hour affair and quite the jigsaw puzzle. I haven’t taken it in to the dealer because like I said, they’re probably going to “unable to duplicate” me. And also because, well...even though I don’t work for them anymore, I am still the best person to do the job. So why should I trust someone else? I’ll just have to spend a couple hours one of these days working for free I suppose.

Go for a ride with the service advisor when the tech NPF's it. You paid for the warranty when you bought the thing. Get your money's worth out of it.
 
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