Jeep Gladiator Driver Voids Warranty For Driving In The Mud

[TheRobSJ]

When your advertisement includes pictures like this, you're on the hook for people taking the vehicle in the mud, and the mud breaking it.

I spent a decade at dealerships. Jeep dealerships, fixing Jeep's. If it came in muddy and broke, I'd send it to a lot porter to get it cleaned before I fixed it...under warranty.

It's a Jeep. It's going to get dirty, even muddy. Had it been submerged, the engine would be locked up. It would have hydrolocked. I've seen far to many techs literally try and fuck over a customer, and service advisors do the same trying to turn a warranty claim in to a customer pay job because customer pay jobs pay better. Just fix the fucking thing, and move on to the next job.

Yes of course CP is the better ticket. And writers get paid usually based on how many hours they sell. But forcing a customer to go into their pocket when they were expecting it to be free sure won’t make them happy. And writers usually have a pay plan based on CSI. One or two bad surveys in a month can tank your percentage and kill your CSI bonus/multiplier. So in a situation like this, they’d rather not make the phone call and make an angry customer just to get 50% more hours by making it a CP ticket.

I’m not sure how Chrysler was when you worked for Jeep, or honestly how FCA is now, but I do know how many of the other manufacturers are today. And I work for one of the most strict manufacturers ever today. But the drill is if you do a warranty repair, the dealer has to save the parts for X months. At any time, the manufacturer may at their discretion, call back the parts for inspection. They get those parts back and find nothing wrong with it, or in this case, customer abuse...they will chargeback the warranty claim and now the dealer eats it. The amount of bullshit I have to do where I’m at now to get warranty repairs done is staggering. I’m having to take video/sound clips. Take tons of pictures. It’s absurd. But all these measures are in place to make sure dealers and/or customers aren’t getting away with warranty work they aren’t entitled to.

 

[Maddevill]

We have a 59 CJ5. My wife wants a snorkel so she can drive it across the bottom of our local lake.

Mad

 

[auntiebling]

We have a 59 CJ5. My wife wants a snorkel so she can drive it across the bottom of our local lake.

Mad

diesel is the key

youtu.be/icp2Pb5uoME

 

[auntiebling]

Also, isn't it my understanding that if you submerged the rear diff, you need to drain it and change out the oil in it?

I've heard something like that. Not just a Jeep Thing.

it depends if the end of the breather hose was submerged or not, which would allow water to enter the differential.

anyone doing serious water crossings will have extended the breather hose as far up as they can to avoid this scenario. stock vehicle, even a heep, i have no idea where the factory terminates it

 

[CDONA]

I had a jet ski dealer tell me that getting my new 650 standup wet would void the warranty.
Worked grave shift, drive to Sacto, then listen to a dry speech on how to operate, safety disconnect the oil pump? make it premix only? yada yada yada, get it wet voids the warranty.
I will admit I was starting to fade, that last one woke me up to laugh.

 

[mikev]

We have a 59 CJ5. My wife wants a snorkel so she can drive it across the bottom of our local lake.

Mad

Just FYI that might void your warranty.

 

[NorCalAthlete]

youtu.be/wbx38XzzSQk

If I were in Ford's marketing department, I'd be all over this trying to offer / get the Gladiator guy into a new Bronco 4-door w/ Sasquatch package.

Regardless of if they step in to offer it, I can definitely see a new Bronco commercial coming soon where they take one through the same exact spot or something though.

 

[Alan_Hepburn]

it depends if the end of the breather hose was submerged or not, which would allow water to enter the differential.

anyone doing serious water crossings will have extended the breather hose as far up as they can to avoid this scenario. stock vehicle, even a heep, i have no idea where the factory terminates it

The spec for modern Jeeps states that they can drive through water up to 30" deep, at no more than 5 mph...

 

[msethhunter]

Yes of course CP is the better ticket. And writers get paid usually based on how many hours they sell. But forcing a customer to go into their pocket when they were expecting it to be free sure won’t make them happy. And writers usually have a pay plan based on CSI. One or two bad surveys in a month can tank your percentage and kill your CSI bonus/multiplier. So in a situation like this, they’d rather not make the phone call and make an angry customer just to get 50% more hours by making it a CP ticket.

I’m not sure how Chrysler was when you worked for Jeep, or honestly how FCA is now, but I do know how many of the other manufacturers are today. And I work for one of the most strict manufacturers ever today. But the drill is if you do a warranty repair, the dealer has to save the parts for X months. At any time, the manufacturer may at their discretion, call back the parts for inspection. They get those parts back and find nothing wrong with it, or in this case, customer abuse...they will chargeback the warranty claim and now the dealer eats it. The amount of bullshit I have to do where I’m at now to get warranty repairs done is staggering. I’m having to take video/sound clips. Take tons of pictures. It’s absurd. But all these measures are in place to make sure dealers and/or customers aren’t getting away with warranty work they aren’t entitled to.

It was the same way when I was there in the 90's/00's. It's part of doing business. We had to send parts back regularly. I had my Viper cert. Imagine going through Viper school, and when it was finished being told "Everything we just taught you is useless, because the majority of repairs you make you won't be allowed to do this."

Warranty claims get flagged when the tech writes a bad story on the RO or the warranty clerk doesn't know how to properly code the claim.

 

[aminalmutha]

Having been on the supply side, I would say 80% of warranty claims are bullshit. Abuse, neglect, full retard stupid shit, or it plain wore out. Many claims made way, way after the warranty expired.

 

[msethhunter]

Having been on the supply side, I would say 80% of warranty claims are bullshit. Abuse, neglect, full retard stupid shit, or it plain wore out. Many claims made way, way after the warranty expired.

Being formerly on the repair side, I can tell you you're dead wrong. I didn't want to do it under warranty...ever. Warranty pays shit. 80% is an extreme stretch. 5% on a bad day at best. Service advisors and mechanics are always looking for a way to turn it into CP.

 

[aminalmutha]

Ok? The overwhelming majority of parts that make it back to most mfgs are either fine or abused. Ie, warranty denied.

If a certain % returns are actually bad, OEM’s get really antsy, really fast. And to be honest, there is a still probably too much good will; in other words, mfg’s often err on the side of the consumer yet still deny mega % of warranty returns.

 

[mercurial]

I had a dash rattle in my Lexus that had a known warranty bulletin on it, it was documented that you had to take off the dash and add this additional pad in a specific place. I had to take it back to the dealership 3 times before they fixed it and stopped lying.

Seems like plenty of blame to go around, when it comes to sketch warranty behavior.

 

[aminalmutha]

I have seen tons of warranty claims where they shotgun everything. Alllllll kinda shit gets R&R’d.

Plug in pooter, pooter spits out litany of codes, replace errthing that has anything to do with any of the codes.

Denied!

Sure, there are known issues, mfgs don’t want to pay for shit, but there are some hardcore dumbass end users. Not just in automotive but off highway too. It is amazing what people will do to very expensive equipment.

That’s why I never understood off roading late model trucks. No way am I going to beat the shit out of a band new, expensive vehicle.

 

[Kornholio]

If you don't want to honor manufacturer's warranties, get out of the OEM dealership business. You're clearly in the wrong field. For me, if it's warranty, I expect the manufacturer's representative (AKA: The Dealership) to honor the warranty as prescribed. Warranties are getting longer and longer so there's really no service incentive for dealers since they get paid so little on warranty work as opposed to CP. Thing is, even the half-wits out there know not to use an OEM dealership for CP service work. That's just throwing money down the drain. There are plenty of third party shops that will do the same level of work for less money...probably faster and more efficiently, too.

 

[TheRobSJ]

When it comes to repairs under warranty, everyone is doing what they can to not get stuck holding the bag. Basically, it’s a game of hot potato.

The manufacturer doesn’t not want to be used as some patsy for fraudulent (be it on the customer’s part or the dealer’s) repairs. So they require the dealer to jump through lots of hoops to get paid for warranty work. Plus maybe the manufacturer makes it even harder, because they certainly would like to keep as much of their money as possible, so they will gladly reject a claim if every I isn’t dotted and every T isn’t crossed.

The dealer, as an agent of the manufacturer, has to fix the problem to honor the warranty. The dealer doesn’t get paid a helluva lot to do warranty work. The dealer will try their best to cut their costs of fixing the car. The biggest cost they can change is labor. So the dealer does it’s very best to incentivize the technician to get the job done as quickly as possible. This is called flat rate pay.

The flat rate technician sees all the hoops they have to jump through, sees how little the job pays even after they waste all the time jumping through the hoops, see how much better customer pay jobs are, and tries their bestworst to fix the vehicle. You had a rattle noise? Oh sorry, I didn’t hear it. Moved on to the next car. Maybe next time. Unless...the technician has identified a way to go off book and shortcut the job and actually beat the time. Then, that particular problem gets fixed every time that kind of job comes in. Warranty, customer pay, it’s gravy either way.


Some of you think technicians are shitty for doing this, maybe you think the dealer is shitty for doing this. But this all stems from the manufacturer. They are who sets repair times for any given job under warranty. Those times determines how much they pay the dealer for the repair. Those times determine how much the dealer pays the technician for the repair.

So let me give you an example of how to get fucked on flat rate. My first week at my new dealer, I get this ticket for replacing a single tire. Which I do. But every car gets a basic inspection. And on this one I find a bad oil leak. Car had just been in our shop a couple weeks before (which is why they found it needed a tire), yet nothing was mentioned about this oil leak. Car is still very much under warranty, so this will of course be covered. Per the manufacturer requirements for oil leak repairs, I had to take a bunch of shit apart to get access to take pictures of the leak, I had to thoroughly clean the leak and spray tracing powder to the area, then run the engine for awhile, then take more pictures showing the leak was in fact...a leak. That was a waste of three hours just to prove to the manufacturer what was obvious to me, just to make sure I wasn’t trying to screw them over to take on this oh so profitable job. More pictures had to be taken along the way to prove I did the repair in its entirety and not just did a quick and dirty fix. Fucking massive repair. Massive. Frame comes out, engine with transmission then separate the two, then strip the engine down to a long block. Massive job. Took me just a hair over 60 hours all in all. Granted it was my first one so I think if I did 2-3 more I could probably get down to 40 hours. I’ve seen the more experience guys do the same thing, and they’re in it a week. Wanna know what the manufacturer paid for the repair, which in turn is what the dealer paid me for the repair? 23 hours. Twenty fucking three. So even if I get good at this particular repair, I’m still only going to effectively get paid a little more than half my hourly rate to do it? Ya know people...it’s a damn good thing that I really don’t need the money. Because if I was a true flat rate mercenary, after that little learning experience I sure as hell won’t be “seeing” any more of those oil leaks.

 

[Kornholio]

I don't know about the small vehicle (read: smaller than medium-duty vehicles) works, but in the class five and above world as well as the off-highway world, SRTs are not set in stone forever. They can be challenged by dealers annually and believe me, that's a common thing to do. I've pushed back on Cummins and Detroit Diesel on a regular basis and will continue to beat up Allison especially as they tend to get pretty ridiculous in their SRTs. And, at least for my techs, even though they're flat rate, they get paid by the hour in the same way regardless if they're working on warranty or non-warranty work. It was the same at the last company I was at, too. I think what Rob is describing really only seems to happen at car dealerships. That's an avenue I'm terribly happy I avoided early on in my career. :laughing

 

[TheRobSJ]

But back to the Jeep that started this little discussion. I mentioned this already, but allow me to expand on this a bit.

My years with Acura and the position I found myself in, I was able to see how the entire warranty process works. I’ve been to Honda’s massive warranty parts operations center where all those parts that they call back from dealers get shipped to. If a dealer replaced a transmission under warranty, they will take that transmission, reinstall it in a test vehicle there, and try to duplicate the problem it was allegedly deemed bad for. If they do, the engineers take over and they try figure out why it failed in the hopes of maybe making a production line change so they don’t continue to produce vehicles that will cost Honda excessive warranty claims (and customer dissatisfaction) moving forward. But, if they find nothing wrong, they can say that the repair was unnecessary and can charge back the dealer for the entire claim.

So in the case of this Jeep Gladiator that went swimming in the mud. Perhaps the dealer took one look at the alternator and saw it was packed full of mud. They knew that if that alternator got called back and FCA saw that mud, it would be deemed abuse and not warrantable. So customer got called and it was a customer pay estimate. I suspect the customer escalated things after that and FCA got a closer look at it and once a FCA rep saw the Jeep, then the warranty block happened. Dealers don’t have the authority to “brand” a VIN as warranty blocked. That has to come from the manufacturer.

 

[TheRobSJ]

I don't know about the small vehicle (read: smaller than medium-duty vehicles) works, but in the class five and above world as well as the off-highway world, SRTs are not set in stone forever. They can be challenged by dealers annually and believe me, that's a common thing to do.

When I was at Acura, the warranty time that American Honda paid to the dealer for any diagnostic was .3 hours. That’s it. Realistically, that’s only enough time time plug in the scanner, get the code, make your best guess and go order the part. That’s it. And that’s why so many techs these days are parts replacers. That’s all they’re really paid to do, so that’s all they will do. Want to do some actual diagnostic work? Remove half the interior to access all the connectors and components on a wire harness. Maybe spend 6.5 hours to find the bad component. Then get .7 hours to R&R that component. So who pays for that extra 5.5 hours flagged on the job? Well you could go to your district manager from American Honda to get paid straight time. Usually those conversations were a negotiation. And in the end, you wound up getting maybe half the time. Better than nothing. But still very much a loser job.

My favorite hurdle the manufacturer put up was trying to get an alignment paid for under warranty. I believe it paid a little over an hour, which is nice for a toe and go Honda. But the amount of bullshit you had to go through took over 45 minutes alone. Putting this weird band with weights on the top of the steering wheel and measuring drop in each direction and all kinds of other silly measurements. It became easier to to just “internal” the job and eat it. I could do an alignment on most of the Acuras in less than 15 minutes. Was less of a loss to just take it in the ass for 15 minutes and then move on to something better than to jump through all the hoops to try and claim it.

 

[Kornholio]

When I was at Acura, the warranty time that American Honda paid to the dealer for any diagnostic was .3 hours. That’s it. Realistically, that’s only enough time time plug in the scanner, get the code, make your best guess and go order the part. That’s it. And that’s why so many techs these days are parts replacers. That’s all they’re really paid to do, so that’s all they will do. Want to do some actual diagnostic work? Remove half the interior to access all the connectors and components on a wire harness. Maybe spend 6.5 hours to find the bad component. Then get .7 hours to R&R that component. So who pays for that extra 5.5 hours flagged on the job? Well you could go to your district manager from American Honda to get paid straight time. Usually those conversations were a negotiation. And in the end, you wound up getting maybe half the time. Better than nothing. But still very much a loser job.

My favorite hurdle the manufacturer put up was trying to get an alignment paid for under warranty. I believe it paid a little over an hour, which is nice for a toe and go Honda. But the amount of bullshit you had to go through took over 45 minutes alone. Putting this weird band with weights on the top of the steering wheel and measuring drop in each direction and all kinds of other silly measurements. It became easier to to just “internal” the job and eat it. I could do an alignment on most of the Acuras in less than 15 minutes. Was less of a loss to just take it in the ass for 15 minutes and then move on to something better than to jump through all the hoops to try and claim it.

One of my senior techs finished a truck today after having it in his bay for over two weeks. Yep...two weeks. It took that long for him to diagnose, receive all the parts are replace all the parts he ordered. A mound of work, for sure. But I encourage them to get the job done right the first time. I despise come backs.