Does removing your back seat make your vehicle a two seater?

sanjuro

Rider
I was curious if you remove the back seat of a vehicle, whether it is a Mini or a SUV, is now considered a two seater, voiding the requirement of 3 passengers for some HOV lanes?

You might not be able to convince an officer that removing the seat of a sedan makes it a 2 person capacity vehicle. However, I can see hauling stuff in a hatchback that would require removing seating capacity.
 

bojangle

FN # 40
Staff member
https://dot.ca.gov/programs/traffic-operations/hov

Certain routes in the San Francisco Bay Area I-80 and I-880, Los Angeles I-10 El Monte Bus Way (during peak hour) and San Diego I-5 San Ysidro requires three or more (3+) persons per vehicle to access HOV lanes. Signs along the highway will specify the enforcement policy for each route. For San Francisco Bay Area ONLY, originally factory designed vehicles with a maximum two-seat occupancy may access the HOV (3+) lanes as long as there are two occupants in the vehicles.

I'd say no, that would not be legal. Removing seats would not make a vehicle "originally factory designed with a maximum two-seat occupancy.
 

CDONA

Home of Vortex tuning
There is one factory vehicle I can think of that could question this law.
Late 70's Subaru Brat. A two seater in the cabin, and the legal in Ca. then, two seats in the cargo bed.
I know this isn't what the OP had in mind, and this model was specifically built to allow humans to travel in the cargo bed legally.
These seats were installed to be easily removable.
 

Enchanter

Ghost in The Machine
Staff member
There is one factory vehicle I can think of that could question this law.
Late 70's Subaru Brat. A two seater in the cabin, and the legal in Ca. then, two seats in the cargo bed.
I know this isn't what the OP had in mind, and this model was specifically built to allow humans to travel in the cargo bed legally.
These seats were installed to be easily removable.

I don’t think that the ease of removal would qualify. The Brat was designed for 4 occupants. The bench seats in full size passenger vans are also designed for ease of removal, do you think removing them would earn a ‘pass’ in the HOV lane?

I was also concerned about using the HOV lane in my van because my E350 ‘cargo’ van has 2nd and 3rd row bench seats (installed by PO). But there is a sticker (with the VIN) in the drivers door says ‘2 occupants’. If I get pulled over, I’ll just show the sticker to the cop.
 

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orbframe

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I don’t think that the ease of removal would qualify. The Brat was designed for 4 occupants. The bench seats in full size passenger vans are also designed for ease of removal, do you think removing them would earn a ‘pass’ in the HOV lane?

I was also concerned about using the HOV lane in my van because my E350 ‘cargo’ van has 2nd and 3rd row bench seats (installed by PO). But there is a sticker (with the VIN) in the drivers door says ‘2 occupants’. If I get pulled over, I’ll just show the sticker to the cop.

I think the brat would be kind of a neat case... as an officer I’d never ticket it but if it went to court I’d like to think a judge would make a special consideration for it...
 

Enchanter

Ghost in The Machine
Staff member
Further Googling indicates that the seats were welded in, and that they were there to reduce the tariff on imported pickups.
 

CDONA

Home of Vortex tuning
Welded? I thought bolted, never actually researched it, just commercials for it.
I wouldn't consider it useful for any other loads at all.

As to importing pickups, I remember some shipped with the bed separate. There were jobs assembling them in Benicia, as they came off the boat.:thumbup
 

Whammy

Veteran of Road Racing
Welded? I thought bolted, never actually researched it, just commercials for it.
I wouldn't consider it useful for any other loads at all.

As to importing pickups, I remember some shipped with the bed separate. There were jobs assembling them in Benicia, as they came off the boat.:thumbup

This is correct, and damn you must be ollllllllllllllllld if you remember that.
Ive known a few Brat owners they were all bolt in.
It was part of the delivery of the vehicle to have the seats installed at the dealer.
 

Beanzy

Wind free
...

I was also concerned about using the HOV lane in my van because my E350 ‘cargo’ van has 2nd and 3rd row bench seats (installed by PO). But there is a sticker (with the VIN) in the drivers door says ‘2 occupants’. If I get pulled over, I’ll just show the sticker to the cop.

To any LEO:

Would you accept the sticker as proof that the van's originally a two-seater and not ticket the driver?
 

Shaggy

Zoinks!!!!
To any LEO:

Would you accept the sticker as proof that the van's originally a two-seater and not ticket the driver?

If the document didn’t fly with the officer, it would likely convince a judge at the traffic trial.

But I’m just a dumb beat cop with a dog. Not CHP or a traffic cop.
 
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1962siia

Well-known member
I commuted 80 from Crockett to Berkeley for years in my 1984 Brat. Never once got a ticket in the HOV lane. My rear seats had been modified to be bolt in and I always had them out of the truck for hauling stuff.

That was a fun vehicle. I still miss it.
 

ThumperX

Well-known member
I commuted in a Porsche 911 Targa for several years. The rear seats would fold down turning the back into a small cargo area. I actually argued that no adult, unless a double amputee or dwarf, could ever ride back there and was given a pass.
 

DucatiHoney

Administrator
Staff member
I was curious if you remove the back seat of a vehicle, whether it is a Mini or a SUV, is now considered a two seater, voiding the requirement of 3 passengers for some HOV lanes?

You might not be able to convince an officer that removing the seat of a sedan makes it a 2 person capacity vehicle. However, I can see hauling stuff in a hatchback that would require removing seating capacity.

I used to own a 1969 Alfa Romeo. It had a small "bench" in the rear that was mostly for decoration, but I squeezed myself back there on occasion, but only by sitting horizontally across the bench. It was clearly sized for small hobbits or perhaps a pack of chihuahuas. There were no seatbelts back there--it wasn't manufactured with them, and there was no mounting point for belts.

One day going across the Bay Bridge with only one additional passenger in the HOV lane, my husband was stopped for a violation of the HOV policy despite showing the officer the situation, paperwork on the car, etc. The cop called in another moto cop and in the end they decided to play it conservatively and issue the ticket. They told him that he could fight it. He contested it and won, but what a pain in the butt. We were out a wad of cash waiting for the court date and then waiting for the refund, not to mention the time it took to prepare materials and to actually show up in court. :rolleyes

I guess the take-away is that even when one actually IS a two-seater, if there's any question, it can cause problems. If you're just trying to "game the system" then perhaps it's worth it to you to get nailed once in a while.
 

bojangle

FN # 40
Staff member
I commuted in a Porsche 911 Targa for several years.

4c56057e030bbb4c25f568a4d91dbb510a674a9225204d43ec1cf24da5802a3a.jpg


:laughing
 
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