Do you believe in saving for the future?

[DucatiHoney]

My mom is real estate agent and she did not plan for retirement properly and now she is trying to catch up with a self employed "defined benefit plan" - basically a self employed pension. It's caused her a lot of grief and I have told her not to worry since she has a lot of equity in her house to use.

The ironic thing is that is that she is the one that taught me about investing early and the power of compounding interest.

My mom is terrible with money and is upside down on her house. It's a mess. She owes everyone, everywhere. It is what it is. And what it is, is my problem. I just posting this not a plea for help, but as a "please think of others if you're not thinking of putting a fair bit away." I had hoped to retire a little early myself. At this point, I'll probably have to work until I'm 75. Fortunately I'm in a career that is more age-friendly than most and I've owned my own practice for a while, so I'm set up for the long haul. Considering someone else's lack of retirement plans doesn't factor into most people's planning--it should. You got a dead-beat brother or a kid that can't seem to hold a job? That might suck up way more of your resources than you'd planned on. It wouldn't be a long trip to homelessness for my mom. I just can't let that happen. I don't judge others for their choices. Mine is going to cost me, and my husband. It's a strain on our relationship.

 

[GAJ]

That is why I have been trying to promote high deductible plans with a HSA (heath savings account).

-Pre-tax/ tax deductible contributions
-Investment gains are not taxed
-tax free withdraws for medical expenses.
-Easy to use with a debit card -- buy bandaids with pretax money, ect.

HSAs are awesome as you say.

Believe me, you WILL use it all in your lifetime on Medical expenses even with Health Insurance.

I think we had 50k to start and my wife used 2/3 of it IIRC for non covered costs associated with her Chemo even though we have Kaiser.

 

[CRUZer]

I don't judge others for their choices. Mine is going to cost me, and my husband. It's a strain on our relationship.

That's a tough situation... every option sucks. Hopefully she's thankful for your help at least. I feel for your husband too. I admire your ability to not judge her for her choices. She raised a good daughter.

My spouse's mom is in a similar place. We've tried to get her to make good financial decisions for the past 15 years and she ignores our advice. She's like a kid who is unable to understand delayed gratification. She eats the Halloween candy of life on the first night of treat or treating. We've let her know we love her but she's an adult and is on her own financially since she refuses to make wise decisions when it's all laid out in front of her. Some folks are their own worst enemy when it comes to finances.

Growing a nest egg is a hell of a lot easier without kids or deadbeat family members or friends. It's a shame so many folks are just dreadful when it comes to finances, even folks who make a good living.

 

[berth]

An old roommate of mine said it best, " Pay yourself First"

What this quote typically means is that by "paying yourself first", it's to allocate some % of your GROSS income to savings and retirement, and THEN budget the rest of for expenses. So if you're grossing $50,000 a year, assuming 10% (a common number), you should be saving $5,000 a year and then use the rest to budget housing, car payments, etc.

This is contrast to making the monthly bills and then "saving if there's any left". By "paying yourself first", you're taking care of the long term plan towards retirement.

Notably, "pay yourself first" does not mean blow the money on toys and trips.

Please, please, for the love of god put something away for retirement. My mom didn't. Guess who's footing the bill? :nchantr I love her, and she raised me--there's no question about what I need to do. I'm just lucky I have a couple of siblings who are helping with her care and bills.

From a similar point of view, please, please have a will and have your estate in order. Figure this stuff out, write it down, get it done, stuff it in a drawer.

Neither of my parents had done this, both of their passing were "sudden" (my Dad had a "write your will" kit in the front seat of his car). And it all fell on me to "handle" everything.

It's not a good time to be making decisions, and a lot of them have to be made.

For your kids sake, set it up so they don't have to.

 

[two wheel tramp]

What this quote typically means is that by "paying yourself first", it's to allocate some % of your GROSS income to savings and retirement, and THEN budget the rest of for expenses. So if you're grossing $50,000 a year, assuming 10% (a common number), you should be saving $5,000 a year and then use the rest to budget housing, car payments, etc.

This is contrast to making the monthly bills and then "saving if there's any left". By "paying yourself first", you're taking care of the long term plan towards retirement.

Notably, "pay yourself first" does not mean blow the money on toys and trips.



From a similar point of view, please, please have a will and have your estate in order. Figure this stuff out, write it down, get it done, stuff it in a drawer.

Neither of my parents had done this, both of their passing were "sudden" (my Dad had a "write your will" kit in the front seat of his car). And it all fell on me to "handle" everything.

It's not a good time to be making decisions, and a lot of them have to be made.

For your kids sake, set it up so they don't have to.

I'm 42 and a will is on my mind so my kid isn't left with a mess in probate. Like DH i have a aide gig i can do into my old age if necessary.

 

[afm199]

I'm 42 and a will is on my mind so my kid isn't left with a mess in probate. Like DH i have a aide gig i can do into my old age if necessary.

A will is fairly simple, unless you're trying to leave to a bunch of people. While it does force you to contemplate mortality, you will feel better when it's done.

But you will still have probate.

With a kid, a living trust is great option. You control everything as long as you are alive, and it passes on without any probate at all. There's always paperwork for the estate, but it's minimal.

 

[bikeama]

A will is fairly simple, unless you're trying to leave to a bunch of people. While it does force you to contemplate mortality, you will feel better when it's done.

But you will still have probate.

With a kid, a living trust is great option. You control everything as long as you are alive, and it passes on without any probate at all. There's always paperwork for the estate, but it's minimal.

What Ernie said. Do it.

 

[Butch]

oh my goodness. this thread grew quickly. I wish i had time to read it, being under super pressure to get the shit done being retire for almost six years now.

OMG!!! there is so much stuff in my garage. Lots of wheels. Pistons. No, not that many pistons...

Cursed i am now cause i was cheap when i was young.

 

[budman]

My mom is terrible with money and is upside down on her house. It's a mess. She owes everyone, everywhere. It is what it is. And what it is, is my problem. I just posting this not a plea for help, but as a "please think of others if you're not thinking of putting a fair bit away." I had hoped to retire a little early myself. At this point, I'll probably have to work until I'm 75. Fortunately I'm in a career that is more age-friendly than most and I've owned my own practice for a while, so I'm set up for the long haul. Considering someone else's lack of retirement plans doesn't factor into most people's planning--it should. You got a dead-beat brother or a kid that can't seem to hold a job? That might suck up way more of your resources than you'd planned on. It wouldn't be a long trip to homelessness for my mom. I just can't let that happen. I don't judge others for their choices. Mine is going to cost me, and my husband. It's a strain on our relationship.

Oh my. She is lucky to have a kid like you. Love of others costing you in the long term sucks but being there is honorable. I am in the game until 70 is my plan. 75.... damn. Hope you get an out.

Feels on the relationship side. For me it is the opposite. Mrs want to hold station here in Shallow Alto. That means 70. I am good with bailing and living somewhere cheaper but alas a lot of family here means not likely. Dad is good but who knows what life with kids will entail. Our own health too.

The Covid has me busting ass 60 hrs a week to stay profitable but since I can’t do fun shit it is actually OK.

Wish you well DH. With your talent I would think you will find an earlier than 75 out but being resigned to the long term is mentally smart. I am in on that. :teeth

I have hope to find a way out at 65ish (only a couple years :cry) but accepting that it could be longer is smart.

Family can screw up our plans at any time and I have a lot of family.

Best that we are smart enough to save all we can for retirement and are prepared for shit that may screw that up. Stuff that is not expected within our bubble.

 

[TheRobSJ]

Save your money and someday, it'll save you.

One way to look at it. But I have another one sentence that is a counterpoint. Not sure where I heard or read this, but it’s a good quote....

Spend your money...or your kids will do it for you after you’re gone.


Of course the right answer is to have some balance.

My grandfather (my dad’s dad) was one of the cheapest guys ever. Certainly not uncommon to see from children from the Great Depression. Never seemed to splurge on anything. I asked him once when I was a kid what his hobbies were and he said not much but he collected stamps when he was younger and now he that he’s older he collected money. Which he certainly did. Died at 83 with millions to his name.

My dad, not wanting to be a complete cheapskate like his dad, started living a little when he hit 40. Lots of nice new cars and bikes. But still had a lot extraordinary frugal ways. $15 shoes, would absolutely get his money’s worth if a restaurant had free refills, and did the whole “cord cutting” thing before it was even a thing. What a thrill it was growing up in a house with no cable/satellite tv like pretty much everyone else I knew had. Retired at 67, hardly had any time to enjoy retirement before getting cancer and died at 68.

Now we come to me. I see the two generations before put a lot of time,
effort, and sacrifice into saving for the future. A future that never happened for them. In my grandpa’s case, I suppose he thought he needed enough money to live till 170 years old perhaps. But I hope I’ve found the right balance. I waste plenty of money on extravagant stuff. Stuff that would have made my grandpa’s head explode. Especially since I’ve used money that started with him to do it. But for as much as I’ve spent, I’ve managed to “collect” plenty as well. So hopefully I’ve managed to enjoy life now and still be in good shape should I make it to 85.

Anyone who saw the McRib thread probably should bet on the under for that 85 though.

 

[CRUZer]

^ It seems there are two paths for those who witness parents/grandparents die early or die with significant wealth having never enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Path #1: Splurge on luxuries and indulgences early and often in life for you know not how long you will be on this earth. Use it or lose it because you can't take it with you. This approach usually means retiring in your 60s.

Path #2: Retire early in an effort to enjoy life without the stress and confinement of a job. If you fear dying in your 60s, maximize your retirement years by getting an early start. Yes, that usually means keeping spending in check until retirement.

I've never understood the point of pinching pennies and NOT retiring early. Seems like it's the worst of both worlds. Either live it up throughout life and pay the price by having a normal retirement age, or spend wisely and retire early. The fourth combination: living it up throughout life AND retiring early usually isn't an option for most.

 

[berth]

^ It seems there are two paths for those who witness parents/grandparents die early or die with significant wealth having never enjoy the fruits of their labor.

I dispute that, honestly.

They did enjoy the fruits of their labor, they simply did spend all of their money.

And there''s a difference.

While you can't take it with you, there's nothing that says you have to spend it all before you go.

Just because someone has money doesn't mean their unhappy where they are, saving it for a rainy day, or anything else. Not everyone wants luxury items, etc.

Forrest Gump: Lieutenant Dan got me invested in some kind of fruit company. So then I got a call from him, saying we don't have to worry about money no more. And I said, that's good! One less thing.

One less thing indeed.

 

[cheez]

^ It seems there are two paths for those who witness parents/grandparents die early or die with significant wealth having never enjoy the fruits of their labor.

Path #1: Splurge on luxuries and indulgences early and often in life for you know not how long you will be on this earth. Use it or lose it because you can't take it with you. This approach usually means retiring in your 60s.

Path #2: Retire early in an effort to enjoy life without the stress and confinement of a job. If you fear dying in your 60s, maximize your retirement years by getting an early start. Yes, that usually means keeping spending in check until retirement.

I've never understood the point of pinching pennies and NOT retiring early. Seems like it's the worst of both worlds. Either live it up throughout life and pay the price by having a normal retirement age, or spend wisely and retire early. The fourth combination: living it up throughout life AND retiring early usually isn't an option for most.

I walk the middle line. I could, as many of my peers do, have things like boats, light sport aircraft, huge workshops full of tools, fancy motorcycles, etc. all paid for on credit.

I ride, for the most part, old used bikes and ride them until they die. I buy new vehicles and keep them 20 years on average. I wring the value out of things.

That said, I have the things I want- I just don't spend frivolously. I keep looking at new $25k Harleys and at used $3500 VTX1800s and keep on riding my 110k mile old VTX and plan to replace it with another if it ever decides to quit.

You know what thing I want more than anything? More than a toy plane or a hole in the water to pour money into? Financial independence. To be beholden to no human cocksucker, to quote one of my favorite characters, Whitney Ellsworth.

So I buy that, every paycheck.

Pretty soon I'll own it outright.

 

[CRUZer]

You know what thing I want more than anything? More than a toy plane or a hole in the water to pour money into? Financial independence. To be beholden to no human cocksucker, to quote one of my favorite characters, Whitney Ellsworth.

So I buy that, every paycheck.

Pretty soon I'll own it outright.

John Goodman sums it up nicely in The Gambler as "the position of fuck you".

https://youtu.be/xdfeXqHFmPI

 

[Bubba_s]

I've been saving since I was 22 (46 now). I want/hope to enjoy my later life for a while.

Well, my dad just died in a car crash last July 1st. He was 71 and 5 years or so into retirement.

So now I am stuck between the fear of not having enough later in life and the realization that shit happens and nothing is guaranteed.

 

[NorCalAthlete]

I walk the middle line. I could, as many of my peers do, have things like boats, light sport aircraft, huge workshops full of tools, fancy motorcycles, etc. all paid for on credit.

I ride, for the most part, old used bikes and ride them until they die. I buy new vehicles and keep them 20 years on average. I wring the value out of things.

That said, I have the things I want- I just don't spend frivolously. I keep looking at new $25k Harleys and at used $3500 VTX1800s and keep on riding my 110k mile old VTX and plan to replace it with another if it ever decides to quit.

You know what thing I want more than anything? More than a toy plane or a hole in the water to pour money into? Financial independence. To be beholden to no human cocksucker, to quote one of my favorite characters, Whitney Ellsworth.

So I buy that, every paycheck.

Pretty soon I'll own it outright.

:thumbupapplause

Part of me also wants to get to the point where if it ever came down to it, financially speaking, I could save a family member if need be. Maybe a sudden healthcare issue, bad investment, maybe starting a business.

Even though I'm targeting $100k / year, realistically I only expect to need about $50k - the rest is for padding / gambling on angel investing / whatever.

 

[berth]

John Goodman sums it up nicely in The Gambler as "the position of fuck you".

https://youtu.be/xdfeXqHFmPI

I was thinking the exact same thing. There's a lot of wisdom in that vignette.

Jim Bennett: I've been up two and a half million dollars.

Frank: What you got on you?

Jim Bennett: Nothing.

Frank: What you put away?

Jim Bennett: Nothing.

Frank: You get up two and a half million dollars, any asshole in the world knows what to do: you get a house with a 25 year roof, an indestructible Jap-economy shitbox, you put the rest into the system at three to five percent to pay your taxes and that's your base, get me? That's your fortress of fucking solitude. That puts you, for the rest of your life, at a level of fuck you. Somebody wants you to do something, fuck you. Boss pisses you off, fuck you! Own your house. Have a couple bucks in the bank. Don't drink. That's all I have to say to anybody on any social level. Did your grandfather take risks?

Jim Bennett: Yes.

Frank: I guarantee he did it from a position of fuck you. A wise man's life is based around fuck you. The United States of America is based on fuck you. You're a king? You have an army? Greatest navy in the history of the world? Fuck you! Blow me. We'll fuck it up ourselves.

 

[cheez]

John Goodman sums it up nicely in The Gambler as "the position of fuck you".

https://youtu.be/xdfeXqHFmPI

I was thinking the exact same thing. There's a lot of wisdom in that vignette.

Guess I missed that one- will have to give it a watch.

 

[TheRobSJ]

They did enjoy the fruits of their labor, they simply did [not] spend all of their money.

Fixed.

As has been said, there’s no guarantees. You just don’t know when it’s your time. Quite honestly I’d give up 25% of my net worth right now to have the knowledge of when it actually is over for me. That way I could plan out my financial future a little better.

My dad hated his job. He was just holding out on retiring as long as he could and then planned to not start collecting SSI until he was 70 to maximize the payment. If he had known he wasn’t even going to make it to 70, he would’ve retired much much earlier. He died with tons saved up for a future he’d never see. I suppose I’m glad that he didn’t spend it all, because my mom is pretty healthy and while she money of her own for the future, now she has even more. Unfortunately she’s very frugal too and doesn’t spend too much. She just lives off his SSI now and is leaving the 401k money in place as long as legally allowed (she was very happy about no forced distribution for 2020).

I have no kids. My wife is older then me and I will theoretically outlive her. Which means all the generations of my family’s accumulated wealth ends with me. I’d like to live life to the fullest, but want to keep something in the hold for whatever may come up like a major medical situation or whatever. But I don’t want to come to the end and leave money on the table.

And no Jesse I’m not adopting you. I know you’ll just blow it all on Camero parts.

 

[GAJ]

I have no kids. My wife is older then me and I will theoretically outlive her. Which means all the generations of my family’s accumulated wealth ends with me. I’d like to live life to the fullest, but want to keep something in the hold for whatever may come up like a major medical situation or whatever. But I don’t want to come to the end and leave money on the table.

And no Jesse I’m not adopting you. I know you’ll just blow it all on Camero parts.

Hopefully you still have a Will of some sort.