Consensus on troubleshooting mc issues

[gixxerjeff]

Good point.
Makes a good argument for a shop to look at it.

 

[Ironbutt]

Hmm.. I have a fond memory's from when I was learning to be a diagnostician. I had the benefit of working at a shop that would call in MMI instructors to bail us out of jams like this.

I would think best practice is that the shop should call in outside help from a more experienced person after the diagnosis time is up. That's what I would do. After 4 hours I'd be picking up the phone.

There has to be some old fart that knows his way around your motorcycle. You just have to find him.

C

I was going to post this in The Garage but thought I probably would get more results here so mods, please move if applicable.

I'd like to know from the fellow mechanics/DIYers what you think is an appropriate estimate from an independent shop to diagnose a motorcycle issue, esp. the most time involved ones (electrical gremlins, starting issues). Sometimes it may require labor to just see what the issue is, it gets an initial diagnosis, a part is replaced, and than the shop finds out there's something else that wasn't even related to the repair. Is there a "best practice" approach to diagnosing mechanical issues?

I have a bike I'm trying to mend back to basic health and feel like bringing it to a qualified shop might just be the way to go to eliminate wasting my time or finding out I need special tool to begin with.

Would a 2 hrs estimate be about right?

 

[stangmx13]

people need to stop using the term "turn over" to mean "fire up" or "almost fire up". it always leads to confusion in diagnostic threads.

 

[NoTraffic]

people need to stop using the term "turn over" to mean "fire up" or "almost fire up". it always leads to confusion in diagnostic threads.

Well how else is an engine going to turn over if it doesn't fire up. Sorry if you can't put those together. If I turn an engine over by hand, that really isn't ideal right?

 

[stangmx13]

Well how else is an engine going to turn over if it doesn't fire up. Sorry if you can't put those together. If I turn an engine over by hand, that really isn't ideal right?

with the starter, obviously.

see, even you are confused by the term

 

[dravnx]

turn over=starter turns the engine
fire up=engine starts
You turn your engine over and it fires up.
The intermixing of these terms have confused troubleshooting since the Usenet days .

 

[NoTraffic]

Well I came across this while trying to do some internet research, (for some reason the site won't let me copy/paste text):

https://dannysengineportal.com/no-spark/

If you go to the "Bad Pickup Inside the Distributor" section, it describes exactly what I'm experiencing. Luckily the FZ1 pick-up assembly is fairly reasonable (Yamaha OEM Par 5VY-81670-01-00).

Any takers to help me pull this out and replace for $150 with my help? Need to be mobile and come with some tools to replace this in SF in a covered garage. I can the plastics off and tank up (if needed) within 20 mins.

 

[dravnx]

Well I came across this while trying to do some internet research, (for some reason the site won't let me copy/paste text):

https://dannysengineportal.com/no-spark/

If you go to the "Bad Pickup Inside the Distributor" section, it describes exactly what I'm experiencing. Luckily the FZ1 pick-up assembly is fairly reasonable (Yamaha OEM Par 5VY-81670-01-00).

Any takers to help me pull this out and replace for $150 with my help? Need to be mobile and come with some tools to replace this in SF in a covered garage. I can the plastics off and tank up (if needed) within 20 mins.

Did you confirm that the pick up is bad through testing or are you still throwing parts at it?

 

[stangmx13]

have u removed the Ivan's FCE yet?

 

[gixxerjeff]

Well how else is an engine going to turn over if it doesn't fire up. Sorry if you can't put those together. If I turn an engine over by hand, that really isn't ideal right?

:facepalm

 

[Climber]

OP. If you have backed out the spark plugs then turned the engine over and no spark on any of them. Next you would back up the line and see if there is a signal going to the ignition coil.

Any time you FD/FI (Fault Detection/ Fault Isolation), you pick logical places to isolate where the problem is happening, usually determined by ease of testing at strategic points along the path of what has to happen.

 

[Free_Bird]

FZ1 displays error codes on the gauges. Its a number where the Clock digits displays. It automatically displays means no connecting jumper or shunts to fuss with.

Like your thinking replacing parts. Still narrow down the cause.

 

[clutchslip]

......
Meanwhile, get a tester, op. It may not save you right now. But, you will use it for decades. I will go look at mine and post the i.d.. It is very good, compact, does ohms, resistance, etc.. Best of luck.

Point of this whole thread is I'm pretty much done trying to tackle it. I'll give it one more go but I'd rather have a competent shop take care of it and know exactly where to isolate issues instead of an enthusiast like me take different angles........

Well I came across this while trying to do some internet research, (for some reason the site won't let me copy/paste text):
https://dannysengineportal.com/no-spark/ ........
Any takers to help me pull this out and replace for $150 with my help? Need to be mobile and come with some tools to replace this in SF in a covered garage. I can the plastics off and tank up (if needed) within 20 mins.

:rofl You don't a voltmeter, I am sure.

 

[DonTom]

Starter spins but engine never fires.

Start with the basics. If you have these three basics (at the correct times, etc) it MUST run.

Start with these three basics (in this order):

1. Is there spark at the spark plugs when you crank the engine?

2. Is there gasoline getting to the carbs (or injectors, etc)?

3. Is there compression?

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[gixxerjeff]

If you're just gonna throw parts at it you might as well just have a shop look at it.
(edited to remove sarcasm)

 

[Free_Bird]

Quoted from post #4


What shop is getting hundreds of dollars an hour??

After diagnosing the faulty part. The Shop asked to authorize repairs estimated to cost in labor and parts. It was over hundred an hour.

AAA answers the labor cost.

Auto repair labor rates vary widely across the country, and even within the same city. As of January 17, 2017, auto repair shops in the AAA Approved Auto Repair network charged between $47 and $215 per hour, based primarily on the shop’s cost of doing business.

The shop is charging those rates. Was saying best know the work is done by a expert mechanic cause that is the rates their charging.

On the replacing parts, its done by less knowledgeable Shop Mechanics. Just keep replacing parts until it works.
If your going to be a DIY mechanic trying to save money. What the hell it could be cheaper in the long run.
Except for critical repairs that life and limb is at risk by sub par repairs. Motorcycles its going to be Suspension, Drive train and Brakes.

 

[ScottRNelson]

Start with the basics. If you have these three basics (at the correct times, etc) it MUST run.

Start with these three basics (in this order):

1. Is there spark at the spark plugs when you crank the engine?

2. Is there gasoline getting to the carbs (or injectors, etc)?

3. Is there compression?

If the mixture is screwed up it might not run at all. I've dealt with bikes before that had all three things on your list, but wouldn't start. Clogged passages in a carburetor can prevent a bike from starting, for example.

 

[DonTom]

If the mixture is screwed up it might not run at all. I've dealt with bikes before that had all three things on your list, but wouldn't start. Clogged passages in a carburetor can prevent a bike from starting, for example.

I would think that is unusual, that it would not start, unless you're talking about a single carb bike.

But sure, that is just where to start. If all three are okay, we need to dig deeper. But I think most problems will show as one of those three from the very start.

-Don- Reno, NV

 

[ScottRNelson]

I would think that is unusual, that it would not start, unless you're talking about a single carb bike.

Two out of three of my current bikes have one carburetor. The other one has two throttle bodies.

 

[D_alexand]

1. Remove the plug wires to check for spark... if no spark check the plug wires and coil.

2. Verify the petcock is allowing fuel to slow... if the bike has been sitting for a while the screen could clogged.