Advice...Wife Cited for Hit and Run....

Lionel Cosgrove

Well-known member
The officer cannot cite for an infraction not committed in his presence. Also, it sounds like a private party parking lot, in which infraction Vehicle Codes are typically not enforceable.

due to the collision being on private property, the PCF cannot be an infraction CVC. The correct PCF would be "other improper driving". As was noted, the 20002 cite makes no sense unless the victim positively identified the responsible driver and requested a citizens arrest, which wasn't the case here. What a mess!
 

Shaggy

Zoinks!!!!
due to the collision being on private property, the PCF cannot be an infraction CVC. The correct PCF would be "other improper driving". As was noted, the 20002 cite makes no sense unless the victim positively identified the responsible driver and requested a citizens arrest, which wasn't the case here. What a mess!

Yeah, there's not much about this that makes sense.
 

tzrider

Write Only User
Staff member
There are two parts to hit and run. First, of course, is the "hit". Then there is the "run". We aren't contesting the hit. It's obvious it did happen and it's being taken care of by the insurance companies. The "run" is what we're saying didn't happen.

Except that it did. As far as I can see, CVC 20002 doesn't say anything about whether the driver knew she hit another vehicle.

My opinion is that there's a basic assumption that drivers are responsible for knowing where their vehicles are in relation to other things. Saying that it's hard to tell where the limits of the car are or that the stereo was turned up is excuse-making.

The collision could have been with a pedestrian. Those are comparatively soft, don't cause body deformation and might not make much noise when you hit them. Thankfully the consequences were nowhere near that serious, but the same level of inattentiveness could have led to that outcome.

I wish your wife well, but regardless of the outcome, she has an opportunity to change her driving for the better. Turning the stereo down when in close quarters would be a good start.
 

}Dragon{

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ︵ ╯(°□° ╯)
due to the collision being on private property, the PCF cannot be an infraction CVC. The correct PCF would be "other improper driving". As was noted, the 20002 cite makes no sense unless the victim positively identified the responsible driver and requested a citizens arrest, which wasn't the case here. What a mess!

IS 20002 CVC applicable on private property (that is not marked CVC enforced)?

It's been ages since I used the CVC, but aren't their just a handful of exceptions of what can be enforced in a parking lot or has that changed (23152/23101/Handicap/Fire Lane?). If it's private property*, is it not a civil issue?

* Edit: Including an off street parking facility
 
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Lionel Cosgrove

Well-known member
IS 20002 CVC applicable on private property (that is not marked CVC enforced)?

It's been ages since I used the CVC, but aren't their just a handful of exceptions of what can be enforced in a parking lot or has that changed (23152/23101/Handicap/Fire Lane?). If it's private property*, is it not a civil issue?

* Edit: Including an off street parking facility

20002 is a misdo and applies to public and private property
 

ST Guy

Well-known member
I think he was trying to be funny. Ignore him and he'll go away.

Hope everything works out for your wife :thumbup

Thanks!

And I get it now.

And thanks to all. We're setting up a meeting with a lawyer and when I know more that's worth posting, I'll do so.
 

stan23

Well-known member
So here's the damage on my wife's car. Note nothing permanently deformed or dented. With the exception of a tiny bit of paint flaked off of the steel part of the fender where it meets the bumper, all damage is on an easily deformed plastic bumper. FYI, this photo is after I spent 5 minutes with a clean rag and some rubbing alcohol to remove the paint transfers. There was some but not a lot.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the damage seems to go from the top of the bumper, to the crease mark. After removing the paint from the other vehicle, you are still left with missing paint from your own bumper. I'm going to go out and say that with that size of contact patch, there is no way your wife didn't feel the hit.

The reason why the bumper is not deformed is because they are designed that way. 5-mph bumper. It's supposed to sustain a 5-mph impact and keep it's shape.
 

ST Guy

Well-known member
Correct me if i'm wrong, but the damage seems to go from the top of the bumper, to the crease mark. After removing the paint from the other vehicle, you are still left with missing paint from your own bumper. I'm going to go out and say that with that size of contact patch, there is no way your wife didn't feel the hit.

The reason why the bumper is not deformed is because they are designed that way. 5-mph bumper. It's supposed to sustain a 5-mph impact and keep it's shape.

There are a couple spots of paint removal near the top of the bumper where it meets the fender. And there are some in the middle of the bumper. But all relatively small patches where paint is missing. And no permanent deformation. There is no large area of damage. And no large area of paint removal. Thus, the bumper deformed as it should have and minimized the damage to itself. But in the process of doing so (easily deforming as it's designed to do), any feedback that contact was being made was minimized.

With today's modern bumpers, it's entirely feasible that one might not notice an impact. My wife's Murano received a largish parking lot dent on the passenger side door a couple years back. Done, obviously, by a modern car with a red bumper. We had it worked back out again by a dentless repair specialist but I seriously doubt the person who did it had any idea they'd made contact. Hell, even the sheet metal on today's cars is so thin a 12 year old can push on it and put a permanent dent in it.
 

stan23

Well-known member
This actually sounds like a pretty good case of the mythbusters! Only problem is, there is no measurable way of detecting contact with another car. Everyone is different and has different sensitivity levels.

Apologies for making a lighthearted statement about the situation.
 

horsepower

WaterRider/Landsurfer
If you ask for advice on barf be prepared for the Devil's advocate, a ton of misinformation and a little help.

In the end, the Devil's advocate is just as helpful in a Leo/ Legal type forum.
Afterall, it's what you're going to hear as prosecution or defense, so why not address it now?
 

}Dragon{

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ︵ ╯(°□° ╯)
If you ask for advice on barf be prepared for the Devil's advocate, a ton of misinformation and a little help.

In the end, the Devil's advocate is just as helpful in a Leo/ Legal type forum.
Afterall, it's what you're going to hear as prosecution or defense, so why not address it now?

Don't blame me!:cool I'm just a realist and know what arguments can be thrown on the table, if it were to make it to court.

I must have been asleep in the academy when they said 20002CVC was enforceable on private property. :dunno Where I worked, it would have been a civil issue. 20001 CVC, 23103CVC would be different.
 

Lionel Cosgrove

Well-known member
Don't blame me!:cool I'm just a realist and know what arguments can be thrown on the table, if it were to make it to court.

I must have been asleep in the academy when they said 20002CVC was enforceable on private property. :dunno Where I worked, it would have been a civil issue. 20001 CVC, 23103CVC would be different.

Misdo civil matter??? Cmon dep
 

ST Guy

Well-known member
I thought I'd update this thread to let everyone know how it turned out. Nothing better to do this weekend. And for those who aren't familiar with this thread, it involved my wife being cited for hit and run back in early 2015.

First off, we paid the lawyer to make it all go away. And the person who's car my wife hit was completely unable to drop the charges. Understandable, but mean spirited, I think, due to the circumstances. My wife really did not know she'd hit the persons car.

As it turns out, my wife had, at that time, the early symptoms of Alzheimer's. We did not recognize it at the time but looking back, the signs were there. An inability to read was the first symptom, as I recall. She has greatly deteriorated since that incident.

She continued to drive for awhile after that but one day, she stopped for gas and then changed her mind and as she drove off, cut the island too tight and tore up the right side of the car. It took a few days before she confessed to it and was quite upset. We got that repaired but there were other symptoms so we eventually made an appointment with a neurologist. He gave her the usual tests which showed she was already in the decline. Functional, but that was declining as well. Since he was required by law to notify the DMV, she stopped driving after that and hasn't since.

Some of the other signs were one day, sitting there crying, she had forgotten how to make out a check. Another time she baked potatoes in our convection microwave, not on the convection setting, but a full hour on microwave. I came into a smoke filled kitchen with two tiny charred hulks of potato in the oven. We had to replace the oven.

She is now, by my calculations, in the sixth stage (out of seven) of Alzheimer's. I do everything for her and she is really the reason I stopped riding as well. I cook and feed her, clean the house, dress her, do the laundry, help her clean up after her frequent fecal incontinence episodes, etc. I'll still try to take a walk with her around the neighborhood from time to time, but that's it. Othwise it's hanging out at home. She can't even stand to be without me in the room most of the time. She'll get up after a minute to look for me, crying "help me, help me" or "where are you, where are you". That makes it difficult to do gardening and other outside chores. Fortunately, grocery shopping can be handled online and we signed her up for her SS so that helps.

At first, after being diagnosed with dementia, she would tell everyone about it. Then we got a second opinion at Stanford and after she broke down when the doctor called it Alzheimer's. I've since not used the word Alzheimer's in her presence and I don't think she remembers that day as she's forgotten a lot of things. She can't read and now her speech can be quite garbled as she doesn't know the correct words.

I don't know how much longer she'll live. Perhaps another year or two, I don't know. But I will be there for her and keep her in our home.

So that's the short version. And for those you love, keep an eye out for the symptoms. You can't do anything for the disease, but knowing what's going on can help.
 
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