Advice...Wife Cited for Hit and Run....

[IAmA M0t0r Ridεr]

 

[chief145]

"If you didn't know that you were involved in an accident, there can be no criminal liability for a California hit & run. This defense obviously wouldn't work in a case where there was significant damage done to another's car or stationary property....such that no person could have missed the fact that it occurred.

It could, however, apply if you hit an animal and didn't notice...or if the damage to another's property was so insignificant that you didn't feel the impact."

Whether or not your wife knew she hit the car is where criminal liability comes into play. Civilly, she caused damage to another's property and is liable, however, it appears that the insurance company has already taken care of that. You need to contact a lawyer if charges are to be filed

 

[ST Guy]

Dude, she hit and left. It doesn't matter one whit if she didn't know (which by the way, it a whole other issue unto itself) you're splitting hairs like crazy to absolve her of responsibility and being defensive about it to boot. You posted this online for internet opinions, but you're contorting yourself to refute them.

It actually recently happened to me...but the guy left a note taking blame and we took care of it amicably and civilly. Had he done it and left it would have been a quite different matter...and I would have indeed sought legal remedy.

Where in anything I've said do I indicate I'm trying to absolve her of responsibility? Both she and I accept responsibility. It happened and we take full responsibility for the damage. And our insurance company has the other parties info and everything is being processed. Read more carefully next time.

It's a simple case that she did not realize she scraped the other persons car and due to the fact that she left immediately (for a logical reason) that it looks bad. She does not deserve a hit and run conviction. Period.

I am also not "contorting myself" to refute any internet opinions. I merely keep repeating the facts when people seem to get them wrong or miss a salient point. No one here knows what happened except on my say so. There's been a lot of nay saying and people essentially saying my wife is lying. That's their opinion. Nothing more.

 

[ST Guy]

I have one more question for those LEO's who are knowledgeable:

On the citation there is a date she is to appear before the court. It's roughly 2 months from now. Is this an actual trial date? Or is it for the purposes of determining a plea and setting a new date for the trial?

Thanks!

 

[PorradaVFR]

No one here knows what happened except on my say so.

Including you. You were not there either. That's the reason I'm a bit leery, and I expect it's similar for others.

I'm not a lawyer nor a cop so I'm just tossing in my $0.02. Like I said before, you seem to be taking the stand up approach and talking to the other party was the right move. I expect it will blow over with nothing more than insurance paperwork and wish you luck.

 

[Lester Green]

if you're so confident, post a pic of the damage to your wife's car. I suspect by your response to anyone who has questioned your story that the evidence would glowingly support your argument. w/o question.

 

[horsepower]

I have one more question for those LEO's who are knowledgeable:

On the citation there is a date she is to appear before the court. It's roughly 2 months from now. Is this an actual trial date? Or is it for the purposes of determining a plea and setting a new date for the trial?

Thanks!

It's an arraignment date. You attend to plead. You attend to preserve your right to a speedy trial and to make any motions. You should get a courtesy notice in the mail, but don't rely on that, and the date may be different/ continued beyond the date on the citation.

 

[horsepower]

Just because the officer issued you a notice to appear does not mean the DA will follow through with the charge. Don't get hung up on this "Stale misdemeanor" stuff since you were not actually taken into physical custody. ...if the victim in the case wanted to press charges for hit and run then the officer had no choice but to issue a citation or file a complaint form, it doesn't mean that the DA will charge it.
Second is that it is a misdemeanor where you have the right for a public defender. A lot of times they will be reduced to and infraction by the court which means it will be handled in a less formal traffic court and only impose a fine (No public defender for infractions).

I would recommend that you contact the DA's officer after a week to 10 days has passed and see if they are following through with the charges and if they are, if its a misdemeanor or an infraction (Make sure you speak to the DA handling the case and not just the clerk) then make a determination on if you need a lawyer or not. I'd really be surprised if this goes forward.

Excellent advice!! Scotty storey will charge over $2k -3k for a misdemeanor offense for what could be reduced to a simple infraction or dismissal with a free Public defender with a little effort. Your best defense is a proactive offense, not necessarily an expensive atty.

There's a difference between an "accident" and an "on purpose". "Accidents" are what insurance is for and "on purpose" is what the courts are for. I suggest you get the insurance involved, make everybody whole, and then consistently stick to your story (the truth) all the way down the line and make sure you show remorse (<< important). Point this out: A crime must have intent and there is none here. Otherwise it's an accident. The burden of proof is on the DA. I doubt this will be prosecuted.
. But otherwise..... just an unfortunate accident. Just like this.

Disagree. Civil liability has nothing to do with traffic liability. Insurance companies will not help here and Accidents still result in citations. Few cause an accident "on purpose". But poor driving, distracted driving, influenced driving= accidents and someone may still get an infraction, misdemeanor, or criminal charge.

 

[stan23]

if you're so confident, post a pic of the damage to your wife's car. I suspect by your response to anyone who has questioned your story that the evidence would glowingly support your argument. w/o question.

That's what I want to see. Her side of the story is that she didn't feel the hit. If that is the case, and the damage is so minor that I may be able to buy that story.

on the flip side to that argument. If the hit was so minor and just a 'rub' then why would someone take the picture as she left? They must have seen significant movement on the other car during the hit in order to report this hit and run.

Like I said earlier, I had someone hit my trucks bumper last week. The marks were about the size of a folded up dollar bill, and the other person's paint marks were left on my bumper. I got no note. I highly doubt if I found this person, that they would be able to weasel there way out of it saying that they didn't feel the hit.

 

[Marlowe]

I have one more question for those LEO's who are knowledgeable:

On the citation there is a date she is to appear before the court. It's roughly 2 months from now. Is this an actual trial date? Or is it for the purposes of determining a plea and setting a new date for the trial?

Thanks!

Not a LEO, but will note that most court calendars are searchable online these days.

And yes, it'll just be an arraignment, not a trial date.

 

[horsepower]

CVC 20013 to 20015 might be of interest to your defense and what will be allowed into evidence. Barring that type of evidence I now wonder how they can create a case after the fact without multiple eyewitnesses to tilt the 50/50.

 

[horsepower]

Hit and Run is either a misdemeanor = you caused property damage. Or Felony= you caused personal injury or death. There is no infraction hit and run.

Hit and Run as a charge doesn't necessarily mean that you knew you "hit" or that you "willfully" ran either.

Example: I am in a hurry ( or distracted, texting, or drunk, etc) and am exiting at an off ramp. Last minute I decide it's the wrong exit to go to the post office and swing back onto the freeway without signaling. This in turn causes a major pile up of vehicle damage to avoid hitting me as I, oblivious, go on my Merry way.
Video and eye witnesses capture and detail my "flight"; I clearly caused the initial accident.
This code allows for and on far more citizen sighting to file the complaint, video evidence etc to support it versus police affirmation and police reports than most cases.

Hit and Run cases also get the sympathy of most juries as many at one time in their lives will be the victims of hit and runners with door rings yet the association with hit and run remains with human injury. I'd rely more on an understanding DA or judge. Of course, if the victim insisted on the complaint and is willing to drop it, then the citing officer also has the power to dismiss it, right up to trial, but it's rarely done. The DA route is a better choice.

As I stated before, no matter how innocent your wife was, the supported facts and her statement to police are not in her general favor even if she is 100 % innocent. The code is clear.: Do not leave before providing restitution information. The argument becomes did she have knowledge of her accident and/ OR is there enough ADMISSIBLE EVIDENCE to support that she caused the accident. Period.
If I were on the jury on this one, I'd have to say she looked guilty based on the facts alone and the lengths that witnesses went to get the facts down. Lucky for you a misdemeanor judge will go on principle of law, not logic and appearances.

Sadly, ( or in your wife's case, luckily ), it appears that without solid admissible evidence, hit and runs are very tough to prove as half of the charge occurs after the fact but ALL of the charge -by law- must be proven.

 

[ST Guy]

if you're so confident, post a pic of the damage to your wife's car. I suspect by your response to anyone who has questioned your story that the evidence would glowingly support your argument. w/o question.

It would glowingly support her/my story and I think I will post them when I get home tonight.

 

[ST Guy]

It's an arraignment date. You attend to plead. You attend to preserve your right to a speedy trial and to make any motions. You should get a courtesy notice in the mail, but don't rely on that, and the date may be different/ continued beyond the date on the citation.

Yea, I found that out when I phoned a couple lawyers today at noon. 'Depending upon how things go, there could be 2 to 4 court dates total. Pain in the ass.

 

[ST Guy]

Excellent advice!! Scotty storey will charge over $2k -3k for a misdemeanor offense for what could be reduced to a simple infraction or dismissal with a free Public defender with a little effort. Your best defense is a proactive offense, not necessarily an expensive atty.

Disagree. Civil liability has nothing to do with traffic liability. Insurance companies will not help here and Accidents still result in citations. Few cause an accident "on purpose". But poor driving, distracted driving, influenced driving= accidents and someone may still get an infraction, misdemeanor, or criminal charge.

That seems to be the going rate. One lawyer I talked with said 2500. The other 2500 or 2000 if I pay up front. Both seem respectable. And both said it would be likely easy to get the misdemeanor reduced to an infraction of failure to exchange information.

So, the question seems to be boiling down to two or three options:

1. Pay a lawyer to handle it all with the goal an infraction or perhaps even a dismissal. While 2000/2500 is not an insignificant hunk of change, there's something to be said for paying someone else to show up and do all the work. Down side is the money for the lawyer, any fine, a point on the driving record, and maybe some increase in our insurance premium.

2. #1 above but we take it to a jury with all the risks of doing so plus probably 2000 more for the lawyers time for the trial. Not a very desirable route.

3. We fight the charge ourselves. May or may not go to a jury. Lots of pain in the ass work, time lost, etc. This route might include a public defender. And certainly a lot of my time. Maybe we'd get real lucky and they'd dismiss the charge. Or more likely, it would be reduced to an infraction. Or???

I haven't talked all this over with the wife yet, but I'm thinking we may just bite the bullet and pay for a lawyer to handle it with the goal a reduction of the misdemeanor down to an infraction. And perhaps we might even get lucky with the evidence and get the whole thing dismissed.

Sigh.......

 

[ST Guy]

Hit and Run is either a misdemeanor = you caused property damage. Or Felony= you caused personal injury or death. There is no infraction hit and run.

Hit and Run as a charge doesn't necessarily mean that you knew you "hit" or that you "willfully" ran either.

Example: I am in a hurry ( or distracted, texting, or drunk, etc) and am exiting at an off ramp. Last minute I decide it's the wrong exit to go to the post office and swing back onto the freeway without signaling. This in turn causes a major pile up of vehicle damage to avoid hitting me as I, oblivious, go on my Merry way.
Video and eye witnesses capture and detail my "flight"; I clearly caused the initial accident.
This code allows for and on far more citizen sighting to file the complaint, video evidence etc to support it versus police affirmation and police reports than most cases.

Hit and Run cases also get the sympathy of most juries as many at one time in their lives will be the victims of hit and runners with door rings yet the association with hit and run remains with human injury. I'd rely more on an understanding DA or judge. Of course, if the victim insisted on the complaint and is willing to drop it, then the citing officer also has the power to dismiss it, right up to trial, but it's rarely done. The DA route is a better choice.

As I stated before, no matter how innocent your wife was, the supported facts and her statement to police are not in her general favor even if she is 100 % innocent. The code is clear.: Do not leave before providing restitution information. The argument becomes did she have knowledge of her accident and/ OR is there enough ADMISSIBLE EVIDENCE to support that she caused the accident. Period.
If I were on the jury on this one, I'd have to say she looked guilty based on the facts alone and the lengths that witnesses went to get the facts down. Lucky for you a misdemeanor judge will go on principle of law, not logic and appearances.

Sadly, ( or in your wife's case, luckily ), it appears that without solid admissible evidence, hit and runs are very tough to prove as half of the charge occurs after the fact but ALL of the charge -by law- must be proven.

Interesting comments about the "victim" insisting on a complaint. I have no idea whether or not they did, but I can simply walk down to where she works and ask. She seemed very reasonable when I talked with her and I'd be surprised if she wouldn't tell me whether she initiated the complaint. I kinda doubt she did. What I think most likely happened is that she called the police, told them her car was hit and that someone grabbed a photo of the car that did it. (License plate in the photo). The officers come the next day to investigate and they make the decision to cite. FYI, I think the citing officer was/is in training as he was much younger than the other two and kept consulting with the other two.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[ST Guy]

To all: Thanks for all the advice. It's been a learning experience.

 

[Lester Green]

pay the lawyer and put this behind you a and your wife. chalk it up to an expensive learning experience. this will get reduced to an infraction. they're not going to lock up a soccer mom for panicking and forgetting to leave a note. especially since no one was hurt.

 

[JPM]

Hit and Run is either a misdemeanor = you caused property damage. Or Felony= you caused personal injury or death. There is no infraction hit and run.

Hit and Run as a charge doesn't necessarily mean that you knew you "hit" or that you "willfully" ran either.

Example: I am in a hurry ( or distracted, texting, or drunk, etc) and am exiting at an off ramp. Last minute I decide it's the wrong exit to go to the post office and swing back onto the freeway without signaling. This in turn causes a major pile up of vehicle damage to avoid hitting me as I, oblivious, go on my Merry way.
Video and eye witnesses capture and detail my "flight"; I clearly caused the initial accident.
This code allows for and on far more citizen sighting to file the complaint, video evidence etc to support it versus police affirmation and police reports than most cases.

Hit and Run cases also get the sympathy of most juries as many at one time in their lives will be the victims of hit and runners with door rings yet the association with hit and run remains with human injury. I'd rely more on an understanding DA or judge. Of course, if the victim insisted on the complaint and is willing to drop it, then the citing officer also has the power to dismiss it, right up to trial, but it's rarely done. The DA route is a better choice.

As I stated before, no matter how innocent your wife was, the supported facts and her statement to police are not in her general favor even if she is 100 % innocent. The code is clear.: Do not leave before providing restitution information. The argument becomes did she have knowledge of her accident and/ OR is there enough ADMISSIBLE EVIDENCE to support that she caused the accident. Period.
If I were on the jury on this one, I'd have to say she looked guilty based on the facts alone and the lengths that witnesses went to get the facts down. Lucky for you a misdemeanor judge will go on principle of law, not logic and appearances.

Sadly, ( or in your wife's case, luckily ), it appears that without solid admissible evidence, hit and runs are very tough to prove as half of the charge occurs after the fact but ALL of the charge -by law- must be proven.

There is no infraction for being an unlicensed driver either. But unless they were repeat offenders our DA automatically dropped them from a misdemeanor to an infraction. The DA and the courts can make any deal they want as long as a judge approves it.

 

[JPM]

That seems to be the going rate. One lawyer I talked with said 2500. The other 2500 or 2000 if I pay up front. Both seem respectable. And both said it would be likely easy to get the misdemeanor reduced to an infraction of failure to exchange information.

So, the question seems to be boiling down to two or three options:

1. Pay a lawyer to handle it all with the goal an infraction or perhaps even a dismissal. While 2000/2500 is not an insignificant hunk of change, there's something to be said for paying someone else to show up and do all the work. Down side is the money for the lawyer, any fine, a point on the driving record, and maybe some increase in our insurance premium.

2. #1 above but we take it to a jury with all the risks of doing so plus probably 2000 more for the lawyers time for the trial. Not a very desirable route.

3. We fight the charge ourselves. May or may not go to a jury. Lots of pain in the ass work, time lost, etc. This route might include a public defender. And certainly a lot of my time. Maybe we'd get real lucky and they'd dismiss the charge. Or more likely, it would be reduced to an infraction. Or???

I haven't talked all this over with the wife yet, but I'm thinking we may just bite the bullet and pay for a lawyer to handle it with the goal a reduction of the misdemeanor down to an infraction. And perhaps we might even get lucky with the evidence and get the whole thing dismissed.

Sigh.......

I still say the cheapest route is to take my advice already posted.

You have 60 days (Most tickets are issued a 30 day court date) so waiting 7 to 10 days for the charge to get into the system is nothing and you will still have plenty of time to get a lawyer.
Contact the DA and see if the charges are going forward (Hopefully they will have had time to review the report by then). If they tell you they are going forward you can either ask them if they would consider a plea and reduce it to and infraction or decide not to bring up a plea to the DA and get a lawyer.
If they go forward with the charges then get a coy of the police report to see what evidence and witnesses they have and decide if you are going to get a lawyer or seek a public defender.

You have 60 days for the "Arraignment" at an arraignment all you do is enter a plea of guilty or not guilty and then they set a court day a couple of weeks out. If you need more time to get a lawyer you can always "Waive time" and get a lot longer before going to court. You have plenty of time if you stay on top of it.