scootergmc
old and slow
I don't see a resolution in that thread. Did he swap dashes with someone and the problem continued? I don't know if it's possible on this model, just throwing ideas out there.
TROUBLESHOOT:KTM 690 Duke Helll(p)!!!
- Thread starter horsepower
- Start date
I don't see a resolution in that thread. Did he swap dashes with someone and the problem continued? I don't know if it's possible on this model, just throwing ideas out there.
nakedape
Well-known member
scootergmc
old and slow
If nothing else works sell it to dove.
horsepower
WaterRider/Landsurfer
Yah I hate it when a thread fizzles out without a solution
A POS for a POS, hmmmm, naw it’s not enough of a steal for him. :nchantr
scootergmc
old and slow
Found some more threads that said spark plug caps can go wonky. I never go in the right direction with these things but it's always fun to try and figure them out.
oobus
Dirt Monger
One more thing Dani: Riding out in the woods I damaged the clutch start wire on the clutch lever. Being the dumb ass that I am, I simply wired it so the bike thought the clutch was in all the time. And, like an idiot, changed a bunch of other stuff on the bike.
Bike ran like crap, I couldn't fix it, put new-to-me ecu's in it and finally took it to the dealer: who had it for 3 weeks and couldn't fix it.
Apparently, it has a detune mode when the clutch is engaged that is not listed anywhere. I replaced the wire and it ran great. You might check this.
I'm still betting fuel pump for your issue. I think my line was kinked for a long time and caused my recent issues.
Why do we like these damn bikes so much?
Bike ran like crap, I couldn't fix it, put new-to-me ecu's in it and finally took it to the dealer: who had it for 3 weeks and couldn't fix it.
Apparently, it has a detune mode when the clutch is engaged that is not listed anywhere. I replaced the wire and it ran great. You might check this.
I'm still betting fuel pump for your issue. I think my line was kinked for a long time and caused my recent issues.
Why do we like these damn bikes so much?
horsepower
WaterRider/Landsurfer
Because when they are good they are so so good!
But man, when they are bad ......
I may have to bite the bullet and take it to Mach 1 since it’s going to need another mapping.
So the plan is :
Assume it’s a new fuel pump and replace
Put in stock pipe and stock filter
Remap
This is what the most experienced mechanics have suggested as the best and quickest solve and thanks to Conan I got the stock stuff I couldn’t find. Wish I had posted up sooner and saved a week of traveling , paying , tuning, Mapping and repairs rabbit holes.
eBay Leo Vince , PC5 and KN.
.
Newest question is that Right side reset that we played with : it had that “Bad gas“ “power” and “standard” option. Should we return it back To the way it was or just mention it to Mach 1.
Also does anyone know what the code on the display was ?
( LEn6th)??
But man, when they are bad ......
I may have to bite the bullet and take it to Mach 1 since it’s going to need another mapping.
So the plan is :
Assume it’s a new fuel pump and replace
Put in stock pipe and stock filter
Remap
This is what the most experienced mechanics have suggested as the best and quickest solve and thanks to Conan I got the stock stuff I couldn’t find. Wish I had posted up sooner and saved a week of traveling , paying , tuning, Mapping and repairs rabbit holes.
eBay Leo Vince , PC5 and KN.
.
Newest question is that Right side reset that we played with : it had that “Bad gas“ “power” and “standard” option. Should we return it back To the way it was or just mention it to Mach 1.
Also does anyone know what the code on the display was ?
( LEn6th)??
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Z3n
Squid.
That code specifies the wheel size. Should be followed by 1882 or something for the wheel size in MM for 17s.
It’s trivial for any shop to test the fuel pump pressure. Don’t assume it is without testing it.
I’d replace the aftermarket parts with stock ones, check all the sensors and wiring for damage visually, do the spark plugs cause you’re already in there and they’re cheap, then do the throttle calibration, 15 minute idle check, while monitoring the fuel pressure. If it doesn’t hold fuel pressure, do the fuel filter and test again, then do the pump once those things are eliminated.
The bike should be on standard or power mode. Bad gas significantly changes the mapping to compensate for desert gas, and will make it run poorly.
If you’re going back to stock mapping, you can just have a zero map put in the PC5 to avoid having to mess with more stuff. There should be no need for a dyno tune if you’re moving everything back to stock / putting a zero map in the PC5.
It’s trivial for any shop to test the fuel pump pressure. Don’t assume it is without testing it.
I’d replace the aftermarket parts with stock ones, check all the sensors and wiring for damage visually, do the spark plugs cause you’re already in there and they’re cheap, then do the throttle calibration, 15 minute idle check, while monitoring the fuel pressure. If it doesn’t hold fuel pressure, do the fuel filter and test again, then do the pump once those things are eliminated.
The bike should be on standard or power mode. Bad gas significantly changes the mapping to compensate for desert gas, and will make it run poorly.
If you’re going back to stock mapping, you can just have a zero map put in the PC5 to avoid having to mess with more stuff. There should be no need for a dyno tune if you’re moving everything back to stock / putting a zero map in the PC5.
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plate 181
Well-known member
Lots of good info here, thanks Z3n for some detailed write ups.
I had a similar problem with my 08 690 SMC. It would just randomly sputter, gurgle and die; seemingly under any and all conditions. Most of the time, it would fire right back up; but sometimes it would want to wait and sit for a while before starting back up.
Fuel seemed to be the obvious problem, right? I replaced the fuel pump and and filter, and still the same problem. Researched all the different maps (including ye old bad gas map), built myself the tuneECU cable, etc. This went on for months, and I was about ready to sell it but god damn, when it worked, the bike was phenomenal.
One day, as I had the seat off, some of the wiring caught my eye. One of the bundles of cables that's all run together in the same 'large wrap' running from the main electronics hub behind the airbox had sort of rode up and was kind of between the airbox and frame; and in a place where the seat could sort of pinch the wires with the frame from time to time. I moved the cable bundle lower, so that it was still between the airbox and frame but significantly below the top of the airbox, so that there would be no way the underside of seat could touch it. Problem solved.
Don't know if it'll help, but wanted to throw it out there. Definitely was making me nervous about the bike and took months to figure out, but after relocating that silly group of wires it's been over 6 years of excellent, non-interrupted riding. Good luck Dani!
Edit - forgot to comment about the dash issue. Yes a problem with these models, although I think by 2010 or 2011 they fixed it. While it sucks that the dash flickers, it's simply an issue with the dash's LCD panel (well, specifically how the panel is connected to the circuit board), and has not caused any other problems with the bike. My dash has been flickering for probably 3-4 years, no biggie. There used to be a great write-up on how to fix it, complete with tons of photos, but sadly a year or two ago all the photos got dumped by the image hosting site, so the write-up is not as useful. Totally fine to ride with the flickering dash.
I had a similar problem with my 08 690 SMC. It would just randomly sputter, gurgle and die; seemingly under any and all conditions. Most of the time, it would fire right back up; but sometimes it would want to wait and sit for a while before starting back up.
Fuel seemed to be the obvious problem, right? I replaced the fuel pump and and filter, and still the same problem. Researched all the different maps (including ye old bad gas map), built myself the tuneECU cable, etc. This went on for months, and I was about ready to sell it but god damn, when it worked, the bike was phenomenal.
One day, as I had the seat off, some of the wiring caught my eye. One of the bundles of cables that's all run together in the same 'large wrap' running from the main electronics hub behind the airbox had sort of rode up and was kind of between the airbox and frame; and in a place where the seat could sort of pinch the wires with the frame from time to time. I moved the cable bundle lower, so that it was still between the airbox and frame but significantly below the top of the airbox, so that there would be no way the underside of seat could touch it. Problem solved.
Don't know if it'll help, but wanted to throw it out there. Definitely was making me nervous about the bike and took months to figure out, but after relocating that silly group of wires it's been over 6 years of excellent, non-interrupted riding. Good luck Dani!
Edit - forgot to comment about the dash issue. Yes a problem with these models, although I think by 2010 or 2011 they fixed it. While it sucks that the dash flickers, it's simply an issue with the dash's LCD panel (well, specifically how the panel is connected to the circuit board), and has not caused any other problems with the bike. My dash has been flickering for probably 3-4 years, no biggie. There used to be a great write-up on how to fix it, complete with tons of photos, but sadly a year or two ago all the photos got dumped by the image hosting site, so the write-up is not as useful. Totally fine to ride with the flickering dash.
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I’m pretty sure that if this was a car (I was a car mechanic for 30 years) you would connect a fuel pressure gauge, and maybe a voltmeter on the pump circuit, and drive until the problem occurred to determine if its a fuel supply problem. Obviously there’s not much room on a bike to hookup gauges, etc, and still be able to ride.
horsepower
WaterRider/Landsurfer
Great info from all and thanks.
And I am definitely checking that bundle of wires post from above as Every instinct I have Is that this was electrical and fuel. The dreaded double whammy of rabbit holes.
Can’t do much testing now that the bike won’t start at all. So........
Since Conan revealed that KTMs Eat fuel pumps, seeing if that’s why it won’t start is priority one. Ask shop to test. Bikewanker did some research and discovered that stock pumps are flawed and cost $450. A Rottweiler pump is $149 and corrects all the flaws of stock. So I bought one so if the pressure test shows it’s the pump , it’s going on.
The bike already has new spark plugs , new fuel filter , fresh gas ,a fresh Tune up.
It’s set to Power. So much closer to an answer now, I feel. I hope.
And I am definitely checking that bundle of wires post from above as Every instinct I have Is that this was electrical and fuel. The dreaded double whammy of rabbit holes.
Can’t do much testing now that the bike won’t start at all. So........
Since Conan revealed that KTMs Eat fuel pumps, seeing if that’s why it won’t start is priority one. Ask shop to test. Bikewanker did some research and discovered that stock pumps are flawed and cost $450. A Rottweiler pump is $149 and corrects all the flaws of stock. So I bought one so if the pressure test shows it’s the pump , it’s going on.
The bike already has new spark plugs , new fuel filter , fresh gas ,a fresh Tune up.
It’s set to Power. So much closer to an answer now, I feel. I hope.
JMardy
More head - less ass
Hey Dani,
I had an 690 Duke that generation and had the low tension connector to the coil pack get corroded. Replaced it and problem solved.
Not the same symptoms you describe but worth a try.
Good luck.
I never got why people run Power Commanders on that gen when TuneECU maps are so plentiful and good and you can dial in throttle response ,etc.
I had an 690 Duke that generation and had the low tension connector to the coil pack get corroded. Replaced it and problem solved.
Not the same symptoms you describe but worth a try.
Good luck.
I never got why people run Power Commanders on that gen when TuneECU maps are so plentiful and good and you can dial in throttle response ,etc.
horsepower
WaterRider/Landsurfer
Bikes at Davis Motorsports.
I asked for them to do the fuel pressure test and Re check All electrical connectors to ensure that something wasn’t missed during the tune up work. And check for any crimping or pinching of any electrical. I also forgot to ask them to see if the throttle valve might have a leak by spraying carburetor spray On it ?
Also , I was awaiting the arrival of the stock pipe, ( from Turkey) stock air filter ( from Italy ) and a Rottweiler fuel pump to arrive. All are here as of today !!!
So .... if it’s the fuel pump I’ll definitely have them install the Rottweiler.
Then the question is now :
Ride as is with Leo Vince K and N and no PC55
Stock pipe stock filter and keep PC5 off ?
Install stock pipe and air box and Reinstall PC5 with a zero map ???
Go to KTM dealer and have them do the four step reset ???
I asked for them to do the fuel pressure test and Re check All electrical connectors to ensure that something wasn’t missed during the tune up work. And check for any crimping or pinching of any electrical. I also forgot to ask them to see if the throttle valve might have a leak by spraying carburetor spray On it ?
Also , I was awaiting the arrival of the stock pipe, ( from Turkey) stock air filter ( from Italy ) and a Rottweiler fuel pump to arrive. All are here as of today !!!
So .... if it’s the fuel pump I’ll definitely have them install the Rottweiler.
Then the question is now :
Ride as is with Leo Vince K and N and no PC55
Stock pipe stock filter and keep PC5 off ?
Install stock pipe and air box and Reinstall PC5 with a zero map ???
Go to KTM dealer and have them do the four step reset ???
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wakked1
Wookie
I had a 990 with stalling issue on downshift/stop. After wasting a lot of time swapping fuel pump, filters, etc KTM finally swapped the throttle bodies. Apparently the secondary servos were acting up causing them to not open/close in a timely fashion, which would definitely cause some weird fuel-air ratios.
bikewanker
Well-known member
I’m not a mechanic but I change my own oil on bikes without full bodywork. I’ve probably only recently put more miles on a fuel injected bike than the previously used device that required jets.
I rode the bike in question about 23 miles after the power commander was removed. I thought the bike accelerated well up through 5th gear and into 6th once I realized it was there (I regularly ride a 5 speed 650 single). I think the tuning is acceptable and the stalling issue is specific to low rpm, like below 1800. The fact that there was a pc5 on the bike seems curious to me since the ECU itself can be tuned. Unfortunately the fueling or lack there of creates another problem. Presuming the fuel pump fixes the most recent issue we’re on to the stalling. My understanding is that it accelerated ok previous to my riding the bike which might eliminate tuning, with or without PC5, as the stalling culprit.
I’m not a discriminating rider in that I’m willing to ride around thing’s and I thought nothing of stalling in the dealership driveway or at gas stop on a different bike, but splitting to the front at a light and stalling :wow.
1. Fueling - I get the impression fuel pumps are a common replacement item.
2. Ride bike to check acceleration again
3. Isolate stalling issue, check for intake leaks and wiring
4. Have dealer hook up to secret KTM system and do Throttle sensor check/adjustment
5. Another dealer check, Idle & Load CO check/adjustment with the latest XC-1 diagnostic box
I rode the bike in question about 23 miles after the power commander was removed. I thought the bike accelerated well up through 5th gear and into 6th once I realized it was there (I regularly ride a 5 speed 650 single). I think the tuning is acceptable and the stalling issue is specific to low rpm, like below 1800. The fact that there was a pc5 on the bike seems curious to me since the ECU itself can be tuned. Unfortunately the fueling or lack there of creates another problem. Presuming the fuel pump fixes the most recent issue we’re on to the stalling. My understanding is that it accelerated ok previous to my riding the bike which might eliminate tuning, with or without PC5, as the stalling culprit.
I’m not a discriminating rider in that I’m willing to ride around thing’s and I thought nothing of stalling in the dealership driveway or at gas stop on a different bike, but splitting to the front at a light and stalling :wow.
1. Fueling - I get the impression fuel pumps are a common replacement item.
2. Ride bike to check acceleration again
3. Isolate stalling issue, check for intake leaks and wiring
4. Have dealer hook up to secret KTM system and do Throttle sensor check/adjustment
5. Another dealer check, Idle & Load CO check/adjustment with the latest XC-1 diagnostic box
horsepower
WaterRider/Landsurfer
^^^^
horsepower
WaterRider/Landsurfer
Very possible that it will come down to throttle issue. It seemed to be off to me from the first ride.
A few master mechanics here have suggested to investigate.
Wish I had some mechanics skills to keep you all updated.
After a week and a missed appointment at Mach 1 , bike has yet to even go on the lift for fuel pressure testing. : |
If I even get to ride it At this point before I have to sell it for half of what I have into it , I’ll be thrilled. :laughing:laughing
wakked1
Wookie
One way to test is to remove the secondary plates, on my 990 they were just held in place with a pair of (very soft) screws. Be very careful to not drop them inside, I used a strong magnet IIRC.
It will change the character of the power delivery obviously but would eliminate the secondaries as a cause of the stalling.
It will change the character of the power delivery obviously but would eliminate the secondaries as a cause of the stalling.
