Yet another racing class thread

[sckego]

OK, so I'm on Motorsport Reg wanting to sign up for Round 1. There's a handy "Need help determining your classing?" button which takes you to a handy .pdf guide: https://dl.motorsportreg.com/bbe93311-d62a-4c4e-b882-04e0216b987f/ (also attached below in case the link doesn't work). The classes described in the .pdf are pretty clear. How they line up with the races available to sign up for on MSR is not so clear.

Superbike Classes:

Both the .pdf and MSR list classes and races for 250, 450, 600, 750, and Open Superbike.

Motorsport Reg also has races for "Lightweight Superbike" (Sun R3) and "400 Superbike" (Sun R1). Neither of these are defined in the classing guide.



Production Classes:

Both the .pdf and MSR list classes and races for 350, 450, 600, 750, and Open Production.

MSR has a race called "Middleweight Twins" (Sun R6) which I'm guessing is the same as "700 twins" in the .pdf - is that correct?

MSR has races for Ninja Cup, 300 WSS, and 400 Production, which are not defined in the .pdf.

The .pdf has a class for 250 Production which does not have a corresponding race on MSR.


Anyone from AFM have guidance on the above mismatches and undefined classes? Thanks!

 

[csik magnet]

*Not an official AFM answer but I kinda doubt you'll get one in a timely fashion, they're not great on communicating*

I think the PDF is a bit dated.

For classes that exist in both MSR and the PDF (so basically if they were raced last year), I'd assume the rules haven't changed.

I'd also assume Middleweight Twins is equivalent to 700 Twins (if I remember from meeting minutes, the change is to allow the FZ-07 to join in the fun with the SV650s).

The Ninja 400 was a bit disruptive and the rules didn't have a good fit for it last year, the new classes sound like they might be trying to accommodate it without letting it completely outgun the other 300s.

That's the best I've got, sorry. It's the blind leading the blind around here until AFM actually says something official.

 

[FourThreeSix]

Maybe I'm just a unicorn, but I haven't had the issue of communicating with the AFM as many folks mention.

https://afmracing.org/contact-us/board-of-directors

 

[csik magnet]

Gordon, the issue with communication isn't just "I don't get a reply when I email them". It's that the general racing body doesn't know what the class requirements are for several classes with only 2 weeks to go before the season starts. If I had a Ninja 400, I would have no clue what things are or aren't allowed for it to be class legal. I could guess, but then it's on me if I guess wrong.

These are things that should have been stated clearly and explicitly months ago to give the membership time to plan and prepare. We shouldn't need to email the BoD to get the answers this late in the game.

To the AFM's credit, I did get an email from Berto saying he should have answers to some other tech/scheduling questions within the next day or so.

 

[FourThreeSix]

Gordon, the issue with communication isn't just "I don't get a reply when I email them". It's that the general racing body doesn't know what the class requirements are for several classes with only 2 weeks to go before the season starts. If I had a Ninja 400, I would have no clue what things are or aren't allowed for it to be class legal. I could guess, but then it's on me if I guess wrong.

These are things that should have been stated clearly and explicitly months ago to give the membership time to plan and prepare. We shouldn't need to email the BoD to get the answers this late in the game.

To the AFM's credit, I did get an email from Berto saying he should have answers to some other tech/scheduling questions within the next day or so.

They were just voted on 2 weeks ago. I understand it's late in the game, but there are folks able and willing to help in their class selections. Jordan seems to have a good grasp of what's eligible for what. Maybe try that route.

 

[DannoXYZ]

MSR has races for Ninja Cup, 300 WSS, and 400 Production, which are not defined in the .pdf.

Ninja Cup is brand new class sponsored by Feel Like A Pro for all baby Ninjas 300 & 400. Raffle tickets are given as prizes good towards Ninja 400 raffle at end of season.

The PDF is kinda generic what-if of all possible combination of displacement X mod-level (cartesian-product) along with age and twins yields way more races than possible in single weekend:

- production X 250, 300, 400, 450, 600, 750, 1000, open = 8 races
- superbike X 250, 300, 400, 450, 600, 750, 1000, open = 8 races
- Formula I, II, III (and now IV ?)
- AFemme
- Clubmans (1st-years)
- Twins (allowed to drop 1 displacement class smaller)
- Singles
- Age 40+, 50+
- etc.

The .pdf has a class for 250 Production which does not have a corresponding race on MSR.

As of beginning of 2019, 250 Prod was rolled into Legacy 250.

 

[sckego]

Gordon, the issue with communication isn't just "I don't get a reply when I email them". It's that the general racing body doesn't know what the class requirements are for several classes with only 2 weeks to go before the season starts. If I had a Ninja 400, I would have no clue what things are or aren't allowed for it to be class legal. I could guess, but then it's on me if I guess wrong.

These are things that should have been stated clearly and explicitly months ago to give the membership time to plan and prepare. We shouldn't need to email the BoD to get the answers this late in the game.

To the AFM's credit, I did get an email from Berto saying he should have answers to some other tech/scheduling questions within the next day or so.

^^this. As close I can tell, the Ninja 400 can enter the following classes (per the .pdf): Formula IV (250-700cc 4stroke twin), Formula Twins LW, 450 superbike (per displacement), 250 superbike (run-down rule for 4stroke twins), 450 prod (per displacement), 350 prod (run-down), and Clubman LW.

In MSR races, those translate to F4, Twins LW, 450sbk, 250sbk, 450 prod, and 350 prod. Then there are the additional MSR races which aren't in the PDF: lightweight superbike, 400 sbk, Ninja cup, and 400 prod, all of which sound like reasonable classes for a Ninja 400.

Excluding classes in the same race, and assuming you'll run down if possible, that leaves... 350 prod/superstock (Sat R2, same race as CLW and 400ss); 250sbk (Sun R1, same race as 400sbk), LW twins (R3, same race as LW sbk), 450sbk (R6), F4 (R9), Ninja Cup (R11, same race as 450ss).

So one Saturday race, and up to 5 Sunday races (actually 4, because who's going to run 450sbk on a Ninja 400?). Whew, did I get that right?

 

[jtiisto]

The following was emailed to AFM members

CLASSES ELIMINATED

700 SUPERSTOCK
We will be replacing this class with “Lightweight Superbike” (see “New Classes”)


NEW CLASSES

400 SUPERSTOCK
To be run under SuperStock rules.

400 SUPERBIKE
To be run under Superbike rules.

FLAP/KAWASAKI NINJA CUP
A class which only 2013-2017 Kawasaki Ninja 300s and 2018-2019 Kawasaki Ninja 400s may enter. This class is run by Feel Like a Pro and all rules and decisions will be made by Feel Like a Pro. AFM will only monitor rules/motorcycles for safety.

LIGHTWEIGHT SUPERBIKE
A Superbike class that will closely mirror Formula 4. The cc limits are:
1. 400cc-477cc 4-stroke, multi-cylindered
2. 400cc-700cc 4-stroke, water-cooled twins
3. 600cc-810cc 4-stroke, 2-valve, air-cooled twins
4. 400cc-Open 4-stroke, single cylinder
5. Super Dino (up to 600cc)
Only bikes within the cc’s listed may enter the race

300 WORLD SUPER SPORT
AFM will be retaining this class for the 2019 Season. 300 World Super Sport class will follow as much as possible, rules set forth by FIM/MotoAmerica. Slicks are allowed. Note to MotoAmerica competitors that any MotoAmerica Yamaha R3 with 'factory kit' will not be eligible for racing the 350/400 SuperStock class.


CLASS CHANGES

FORMULA PACIFIC
The “black flag for being lapped” rule has been taken out, meaning riders will no longer be black flagged if they are about to be lapped by the leaders. There will still be the minimum lap time requirement to enter the class and it must be met during the Formula Pacific qualifying session (the lap time requirements have not changed). The Formula Pacific class now reads:

A class for the fastest riders. At Sonoma, riders must achieve a lap time of 1:47; at Thunderhill, 1:59; at Buttonwillow, 1:56 (1:59 counter-clockwise); during the Formula Pacific qualifying session to enter. If a rider fails to post a flying lap during the qualifying session, a race official must give approval for the rider to enter the race. This class is for experts only.

650 TWINS / MIDDLEWEIGHT SINGLES AND TWINS
650 Twins has been RENAMED to “Middleweight Singles and Twins” and will allow 400cc-Open cc 4-stroke Singles

OPEN GP
600cc-750cc bikes will be allowed in Open GP

CLUBMAN
There will be no championship for any of the Clubman races