Yella600rr's crash at 3j's 1/16/07 T9

yella600rr

popmonkey.com
Ok I've got some popcorn and a diet coke in my tummy and a few minutes of lunch break left.

Details:
3J's 1/16/07
Infineon Exit T9 (aka bus stop)
Last session of the day
4th lap of the session
Track temp I think was dropping below 50F
Mental capacity - insane as usual but other than that didn't feel too wiped.
Session intensity level - 70% of previous session.

Link to Ian Donald’s images of the crash. (Yes I plan to purchase said images from him but have not done so yet.)

Yella600rr's crash sequence.

Start at image 65 and then work back to image 75.

You may also want to look at images ending in 21/22 and 76/77 on pages 2 and 3.

Well I knew it was the last session of the day and I tried very hard to keep it from being an aggressive speed session. Kind of like a cool down session. I know myself and at the end of the day I'm usually fatigued and prone to making mistakes. I was however working on accelerating out of T8, maintaining throttle down the hill into turn 9 on a mid track line and then begin braking firmly at the first cone.

My goal was not to maintain more speed going through the bus stop but as the day progressed I was getting smoother at my "flick over transition" so my speed did increase some.

In regards to this incident I don't recall my turn in point on the right hander being any different but I was wide on exit of right hander (maybe because I was carrying more speed than previous entrances) and when I flicked it over for the left hander I was heading for the paint stripes. High speed brain thoughts >>>> “I was afraid to lean the bike over for the left turn, I was afraid to run off because I thought someone might be coming on the outside and I panicked and squeezed the brake some in hopes to give me a few more nanoseconds to prepare another plan for the left hand turn and I tucked the front on the paint stripes.<<<<<<<<<<

I've kicked myself over a 100 times and I go over it in my head again and again, if I would have just not touched the brakes and just rode over the paint and then turned after the paint I wouldn't be posting in this thread. I look at the pics and I was upright enough to ride over the paint.

Am I correct in my afterthoughts on this?

If I can learn anything from this is, how do riders manage that gut instinct panic reflexes? And then over write them when necessary?

Thanks,
Theresa

Additional Thoughts about my crash:
My key mistake was I boched the entrance/exit of RH T9.

Plus I was instructed to never lean a bike over on paint, it is slicker than an oiled track especially when the track temp is below 60F.

I was also instructed to never apply trail braking on the paint or while the bike is dynamically unstable. I did it anyway out of a panic reflex, a reflex I need to stop, that is what I'm kicking myself for, was the panic brake application. If I would have kept from squeezing the trigger I would have increased my odds in keeping the bike upright.

Make note that I did not grab a fistful of brakes and lock up the front tire, I applied a slite pull on the lever. I may have moved my two fingers 1/4" at the most. Just the brake pads touching the roter did the tuck. I doesn't take much when the bike is unstable on a slippery slope.

In an email from a friend: "Once you were up on the paint that much it was touch and go. Unfortunately that's how we learn not to get into those situations. Chances are you will be choosing lines and watching apexes much more carefully in the future. "

Fur Sur,
Theresa
 
Last edited:

nweaver

Well-known member
What I think happened, based on the photos:

You did an "Oh shit" standup/brake, and when you hit the lower traction paint you ended up locking the front, allowing it to turn easily (a motorcycle wheel doesn't turn/tuck that easily if its moving).


One thing that I try to do is always ALWAYS trust the bike. I did a couple of boneheadedbits myself that day: downshifted too hard and felt the rear slide, and touched my toe because I wasn't leaning off enough but my feet were too far off the pegs. But in both cases, the reaction to just "ride through it" kept it from being a problem which would damage my plastic.

In particular, my reaction to "Oh shit I'm going to fast into a turn" is NOT to brake if I'm committed (which you were, you were already starting to lean as you went over the paint) but to just concentrate on turning. The worst that would happen is you lowside anyway, but it takes a LOT to lowside a bike out by just turning too sharply.

This has taken a LOT of mental reinforcement, but it has also saved my butt a couple of times (once when just starting out. If I did "panic brake", I would have speared the side of a cliff on Claremont or lowsided into it. Instead, the front wheel kissed the outside bots-dot and I kept riding). Thus I take it as a mantra: "The bike can take the turn" [1]


Also, I (perhaps foolishly) trust the person behind me not to F@#)(* up too badly, especially trying to get close/pass in the bus stop. Looking at how the rider behind you was able to react, if you had gone wide out of the turn there would have been no problem at all.


[1] Its also why I'll never ride a cruiser willingly, because its not true for a cruiser. ICK.
 

Holeshot

Super Moderator
Staff member
Theresa, actually had you added bar input and not used the brake, you likely would have gone down as well. Trust me on this: you won't make the same mistake twice. This one wasn't too costly...

Last season I crashed out of 3rd in 600 Proddy or Supebike (I can't recall which) by doing kinda the same thing. I passed a lapper on the outside of the entrance to T9 and he never turned in till wayyyy late, shoving me into the dirt aimed toward the exit of T9A. I knew enough to not turn until I was on pavement but was concerned about getting speared by him when I re-entered the track. I put some heavy bar input as soon as I got back on track and crashed on the paint stripes (kinda about 10 feet from the apex of T9A). The lapped rider was halfway between T9 & T9A when I crashed. I never added in for the speed differential.

Now, if I get into a situation like that I force myself to take a quick look and not target fixate on getting back on track. Don't worry so much about people behind you. If they're any good, they'll know you're in a situation when they see you ride the paint.
 

tzrider

Write Only User
Staff member
T-

T9 is a turn that accounts for many, many track day crashes. Yours is a variation on a common theme up to a point.

Where your incident is probably similar to others is in your entry speed. If your entry speed is higher than you're comfortable, you'll either turn early or not quickly enough and will run wide in the right-hander.

Once that happens, riders either get into the predicament you did or they may avoid the paint, but turn the bike into the left-hander and then realize they are running out of track at the exit. They add lean angle while they are adding throttle and lose the rear.

It looks like you may have been able to let off the brakes, let the bike run straight as you crossed the paint and then squeeze the brakes on again on the other side. Unless you're going hopelessly too fast at the entrance, there is usually enough room to bleed off some speed and get the bike turned before you run off.
 

yella600rr

popmonkey.com
Thanks Guys!

I wish I knew who the guy was behind me on the red bike so I could buy him some new whitey titeys.

I'm amazed he didn't hit my bike and that he didn't crash his own bike.
 

clutchslip

Not as fast as I look.
yella600rr said:
........I was afraid to run off because I thought someone might be coming on the outside.......

Am I correct in my afterthoughts on this? ......

Thanks,
Theresa
I know that you, like me, worry about the people behind you. I have seen it.

There was a crowd at that corner at that time. So........ whether you share it, or not. I hope you will review how you felt in regard to the other riders.

It's a very strange, competitive, yet survivalist, and yet helpful line we travel out on the track.

Before you, and everyone else, nic-pics technique apart, look at those other issues that may influence your abilities.

I will gladly ride with you anytime. :)
 

yella600rr

popmonkey.com
Re: Re: Yella600rr's crash at 3j's 1/16/07 T9

clutchslip said:

There was a crowd at that corner at that time. So........ whether you share it, or not. I hope you will review how you felt in regard to the other riders.

Well I used to be edgy or jumpy when I would have some one close in on me or fly by me but not anymore.
I have only 15 trackdays under my tires and less than 4000 miles of sport bike riding. The best thing I was taught by my teachers and mentors was plan your line, ride your line, and ride it tite.

If I'm in front and I'm riding tite lines then the track is MINE so pass my ass if you want me to notice you exist out there.

clutchslip said:

I will gladly ride with you anytime. :)

Thanks, I'll be at Sears or Laguna a few times this year so don't be shy, I don't bite too hard. ;)
 

afm199

Well-known member
That was one of those crashes where sometimes you are just screwed.... The worst part about track riding, when you make a mistake, the consequences may be severe.

It looks to me like all you could have done was straightline it out and risk getting taken out, or try to turn and risk putting it down. Either one sucks. Which is, unfortunately, the risk we take.
 

clutchslip

Not as fast as I look.
afm199 said:
That was one of those crashes where sometimes you are just screwed....

I was screwed in all my crashes. :laughing
But I'm working on the the non-screwed kind.
 

afm199

Well-known member
A few years ago I saw Matt Mladin hit the airfence at T10 at Sears at about 120 mph (before the T 9 chicane). He got up, picked up his, bike kicked the shift lever, and rode off.
 

clutchslip

Not as fast as I look.
That's what I'm talking about!
We all coulda been contenders, if we crashed better.
That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it.
 

675 Trip

Well-known member

mgb

wants another moto
T, I remember the crash in the last session but I didn't know it was you. When I saw you afterwards, just before we all headed home, I had no idea you had been down.

Glad you're OK - hope to see you out at another trackday soon...
 

Variable

AYE YAH!
Re: Re: Yella600rr's crash at 3j's 1/16/07 T9

ianG said:
You gotta stop kicking yourself. You can't come to the track still mad at yourself from old crashes. Otherswise you'll psych yourself out and end up getting frustrated because you can't get past the mental block.

Learn what you can from a crash, anylyze what you did and how you can correct it in the future, and move on.

We all find outselves in those panic situations.
http://gotbluemilk.com/web060710/308/imagepages/image7.html

You just need to learn how to remain calm, stay relaxed and everything will fall into place.

Pic caption should read: I like to take my street bike on the MX tracks. It's more of a challenge!

--> IanG - Apologies for making light of that pic - Hope you came out of that one ok! Cool pic BTW!
 

yella600rr

popmonkey.com
Re: Re: Yella600rr's crash at 3j's 1/16/07 T9

ianG said:

We all find ourselves in those panic situations.

You just need to learn how to remain calm, stay relaxed and everything will fall into place.

Thanks Ian!

I hope someday this little grasshopper will find that place. I know she wants too be an excellent rider not a fast rider.

It rocks that there are riders like you and so many others that take pride and joy in teaching others the art of smooth riding.

I don't believe you get paid very much to teach at a trackday.

T
 

Variable

AYE YAH!
Re: Re: Re: Re: Yella600rr's crash at 3j's 1/16/07 T9

ianG said:
You kidding me, that photo is begging to be made fun of. Fire away. I walk away with a couple broken bones, but nothing too serious.

Glad you're a good sport about it!!! :cool

I can never tell who might flame up around here if you write something about them..... :confused

Glad you survived and you're here to ride another day!!! :burnout
 
Top