What RPM range is best to be in, on street? Higher or lower RPMs?

[Monkey_Boy]

... . But choosing to lug it and then gradually push the speeds of the bike worked better than waiting for the apex to end, and then upshift.

:wow

 

[tzrider]

I have found that high RPM's on the track can, at times, cause me to go slower around the turns. The redline acts as a ceiling to my acceleration until I can get another upshift. An upshift might not be the smoothest after noticing I have hit the ceiling. Planning ahead makes the difference here.

Something to think about: The outer edge of the tire has a smaller circumferance than the center. The engine speed difference between the bike at full lean and fully upright is about 500 RPM. That's half a gear. If you can bring the bike up earlier when you exit a corner, you may be able to delay your upshift.

Alternatively, try a GP shift pattern. Makes it pretty easy to snatch an upshift while you're leaned over. The occasions on which you'd *downshift* while leaned over are few.

 

[Wrong Way]

Alternatively, try a GP shift pattern. Makes it pretty easy to snatch an upshift while you're leaned over. The occasions on which you'd *downshift* while leaned over are few.

While in a turn, if there is available traction for going a bit faster, there should be traction for an upshift also. What about catching that upshift near peak horsepower versus doing it at a slightly lower RPM, where the required amount of traction would be a little less? If you are at redline, won’t an upshift put you right at peak horsepower? This is one of my concerns about upshifting in turns, not having the available traction if the bike is screaming and will ooze uncontrollable horsepower to the rear wheel.

Also, sometimes I find my self not trimming so much speed off at a particular turn, lots of RPM’s before the apex. Maybe not quite redline, but know it’s a juggle of, bringing the bike up, twisting the throttle and grabbing the gear. Alternatively, if I could carry it a gear higher and after practicing the turn, manage a little more speed, I may find myself entering the power band on the exit and catch a shift when the bike is more upright.

Thanks for the info on the circumference

 

[tzrider]

While in a turn, if there is available traction for going a bit faster, there should be traction for an upshift also. What about catching that upshift near peak horsepower versus doing it at a slightly lower RPM, where the required amount of traction would be a little less?

I don't quite understand the last statement above. Are you saying you believe it takes more traction to upshift near peak power? If so, more about that below...

If you are at redline, won’t an upshift put you right at peak horsepower? This is one of my concerns about upshifting in turns, not having the available traction if the bike is screaming and will ooze uncontrollable horsepower to the rear wheel.

If I'm upshifting in a turn, it will be well after the apex and normally at a point where I'm beginning to relax my lean angle. In this situation, I'm using less grip for cornering and can use a little more for acceleration.

Even if that were not the case -- say you're in a very long increasing radius corner and need to get an upshift in while leaned over -- you should be able to shift without disrupting the chassis. I upshift without the clutch and come back into the throttle so the acceleration matches what I was doing in the prior gear. However you do it, your throttle control determines how much power you're putting to the ground. If you're "oozing uncontrollable horsepower to the rear wheel," It's a throttle control issue, not a gear selection issue. You can get away with poor throttle control if you're in a higher gear but then you're in the wrong gear for the drive.

 

[Wrong Way]

I can certainly see all the points made, they make perfect sense.

I hope I can clarify what I was specifically referring to. I certainly enjoy shifting while leaned and riding in higher RPM ranges, so it’s nice to hear what others have to say about it.

If I am practicing on a particular turn, a turn that I am having trouble driving out of due to lack of top end, I might consider entering the turn in a higher gear. This is where the theory of using high RPM’s could hurt my speed.

If I enter the turn, the very next lap, in the next higher gear, my time will suffer even more. If I stick it out, lap after lap, I may gradually build speed in that turn. There may be potential to pick up enough speed to be at the appropriate RPM for the exit, even though I am in a higher gear.

 

[tzrider]

If I enter the turn, the very next lap, in the next higher gear, my time will suffer even more. If I stick it out, lap after lap, I may gradually build speed in that turn. There may be potential to pick up enough speed to be at the appropriate RPM for the exit, even though I am in a higher gear.

I hear what you're saying. The matter of how fast you can ride a given turn is ultimately separate from what gear you ride the turn in, though one affects the other. I often ride a gear high until I've found the maximum corner speed I'm going to be comfortable with. If the gear is still too high, I'll begin to take the turn in a lower gear once I get to the point where I care about my drive. I generally try to work corner speeds out first, then add harder braking and acceleration later in the day. That approach helps me figure the corner speeds out without messing with other variables at the same time. Once I understand how fast I can ride the turn, it's quite a bit simpler to figure out what gear is best at my desired entry and exit speeds.

 

[Monkey_Boy]

You can get away with poor throttle control if you're in a higher gear but then you're in the wrong gear for the drive.

Experienced liter bike riders will tell you it is better to be near red line on corner exit, and to require an upshift once you're more upright. Why? Because if you do spin up the rear, the rev limiter will keep the tire from getting away from you. It helps reduce the risk of a high side.

It makes sense when you think it over a bit.

A liter bike is 99% about throttle control, as you pointed out.

 

[Wrong Way]

Experienced liter bike riders will tell you it is better to be near red line on corner exit, and to require an upshift once you're more upright. Why? Because if you do spin up the rear, the rev limiter will keep the tire from getting away from you. It helps reduce the risk of a high side.

It makes sense when you think it over a bit.

A liter bike is 99% about throttle control, as you pointed out.

Does the ZX10 have a rev limiter?

 

[tzrider]

Does the ZX10 have a rev limiter?

Yes indeed.