UK CBT vs California CMSP - A newb's perspective

[matt7481]

Hi all,

I’m a new BARF’er and in my introductory post a few weeks ago I promised to write up a comparison of the UK CBT (Compulsory Basic Test) vs the CMSP (California Motorcycle Safety Program).

I’m a British citizen living in the US, but still holding a UK car driving license. As such I was able to complete the CBT in December last year whilst visiting family in the UK. I completed my CMSP course a couple of weeks ago here in the Bay Area and am now a proud M1 license holder.

I’m not totally sure of the logistics, but I like learning and if possible I’m going to try to complete the UK Theory and MOD1 and MOD2 tests on trips back there as well as continuing to take intermediate and advanced courses here in the US.

So what follows below are my thoughts on the two beginners courses. Obviously this is subjective from my point of view so please don’t be offended by any of this. I’m just some guy and a total newb to boot not an instructor or experienced rider. So in that spirit…enjoy, thanks.

Matt

CMSP Safety Course vs CBT

Upfront I should say that I’m unusual. I’m that guy who arrives at the course having read the handbooks cover to cover probably more than once plus having read maybe one or two other books and watched a boat load of you tube instructional videos. As such the classroom portions of each class were a little redundant to me. The CMSP in particular I found pretty repetitive (I understand that it’s designed for people who arrive having done no homework), just saying.

CMSP:
• 2 day (or 2 day + 1 evening course). About 50/50 classroom vs range (parking lot practice).
• Optional for new California riders, but gives you an exemption from the DMV skills test to get your M1 license
• Classroom covers both mornings or the evening and both mornings I think
• Range both afternoons, total time on the bike approx. 8 hours, but a lot of that you’re waiting in line.
• Class size in my case 12 pupils per class and 6 per instructor on the range
• Bikes were a mix of 125cc’s, but I believe they go up to 250cc

CBT:
• 1 day course. 5 elements.
• Classroom covers riding gear, legal requirements etc… similar on both courses
• Range covers getting started, balance, steering, slow speed skills, U-turns and stopping including emergency stops.
• Road Ride – 2 hour mandatory road ride with instructor. You are wired up so he can give instructions. Max 2 pupils per instructor covers all types of road and junctions except freeways + U turn, hill start and emergency stop as mandatory maneuvers
• Compulsory for all new riders in the UK and must be re-taken every 2 years for riders that do not go on to get their full license.
• Class size is limited to 4 to 1 on the range and 2 to 1 on the road.
• Max 125cc bikes.

Some weird or quirky differences between the UK and US.

US teaches you to turn off the bike using the kill switch every time. UK says don’t touch it unless there’s an emergency.

US course goes into countersteering and line selection. Although road positioning is covered in the UK countersteering was not even mentioned in my CBT.

UK teaches that the default best riding position is the middle of the lane or position 2, not slightly offset as in the US.

UK familiarizes you with wheeling the bike as in parking or in a garage or similar, not covered in the US.

What I liked

CMSP – more time on the bike with lots of practice of starts, stops, countersteering, emergency stops and swerves. Admittedly at low speed, but in a safe environment not having to worry about traffic.

CBT – low instructor to pupil ratio. Road ride definitely throws you in at the deep end for street riding, but really pays off. Emphasis on “real life riding” not taking track techniques to the road eg: aggressive line selection, body positioning etc….Range really stressed low speed skills like u-turns and figure of eights and got you working on clutch control and use of back brake to stay balanced

What I didn’t like

CMSP – for me overly long and repetitive classroom sessions.

CBT – I picked up bike control fairly well, but the CBT is very condensed. I love that it includes the road ride however by that point I was still getting to grips with simple things like clutch and throttle control. Some of the instruction on the road went over my head at the time. Luckily youtube came to the rescue with some really good videos out there that helped recap later.

Conclusions

To be very honest I went into this with a definite bias towards thinking the CBT would be the better of the two courses. I still think it probably is, not least because it’s mandatory for all new riders in the UK vs the optional CMSP course. However I really enjoyed the CMSP course and the ultimate verdict for me was a lot closer than I thought.

So what would be the ideal course for me? I think it would blend bits of both per below:
• Mandatory for all new riders (I actually think all car drivers should have to take this course so they are more aware of bikes on the road).

• One and a half to two days.

• Day one: Classroom to include, gear, bike controls, legal requirements, proper riding techniques on the road. Theory test. Range practice following the CMSP model. I would split the difference between the CBT and CMSP and may say the class should be 4-8 people max to speed up the learning

• Day two: Continued range practice in the morning. Range skills test. Road Ride

I’ve probably skipped over or forgotten a bunch of stuff from both courses so feel free to add to or correct my recollection.

Finally for new and also experienced riders I wanted to give a shout out to several youtube resources that I have found especially helpful both from the UK and US. I’m also throwing in itchyboots because her channel is awesome and she deserves the views.

US: motojitsu, dandanthefireman
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0FFFneMi9GwRHUsuBjM0jA
https://www.youtube.com/user/Stubbs928

UK: lexmoto (for their CBT series), Road Craft Nottingham
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_MqtB1vD-M
https://www.youtube.com/user/RoadcraftNottingham

Holland,India and Malaysia: itchyboots
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEIs9nkveW9WmYtsOcJBwTg

 

[motomania2007]

Great observations.

I agree that the combination sounds interesting and probably more useful.

I agree that the CMSP program spends too much time on riding gear and a few other areas. Good info but could be reduced.

I think the biggest reason there is no "on road" instruction portion in CMSP is cost and more specifically liability insurance cost.

Insurance cost is insane and thus the cost of the course would also be insane. A few years ago I talked with the insurance company that insures the CMSP sites and asked about on road insurance and was told if it was even possible, the cost would be $50-100 per day, just for the insurance.

Think of the school's liability if the student screwed up and was seriously injured and/or seriously injured a pedestrian or other third party, during the on road portion of the course.

Then you have the instructor's pay at $35+/hr and the cost of insuring the students' and instructor's bikes. My estimate is the cost to the school is on the order of $200 per hour of the class for 2 students and 1 instructor.

It would cost to the students would be a lot more so the school could make any $. Probably $250-300/hr per student.

At that cost, unless required by law, very few students would pay for the class.

Most Americans view driving cars and riding motorcycles as part of exercising their right to travel.

If you were a US politician and your platform was to require a much greater cost of driver training, your opponent would tell the voters that you were trying to limit the voter's right to travel and your political future would be very limited.

Thus there is very limited political will power to require more driver/rider training.

 

[Aware]

This is interesting. I did my CBT in about 1984 or 5 ... whenever it was first introduced. Too long ago for me to remember everything, but I do remember being given a ton of stay-alive and forward observation tips (look in shop windows for reflections to see past lorries and vans, for instance).

The UK CBT: are they definitely teaching the centre of the lane, and not 3 feet from the kerb? They used to teach 3 feet from the kerb, which only makes sense for cars.

US roads have a near constant oil line in the centre of the lanes. It is super dodgy to spend your whole time there so that positioning advice is good

 

[Junkie]

I'm surprised that they tell you to use the middle of the lane there. Are vehicles leaking fluids less common? In my experience the middle is often significantly slicker than the sides.

 

[DataDan]

US course goes into countersteering and line selection. Although road positioning is covered in the UK countersteering was not even mentioned in my CBT.

Great post. Thank you.

Teaching countersteering is a US innovation. Harry Hurt wrote a paper on it in 1973, and it was included in his crash investigations in 1975-76 (published in 1981). The venerable Brit book, Motorcycle Roadcraft, didn't mention it until the 2013 edition.

 

[matt7481]

Thanks for all the replies. I've been pretty tied up with the day job so not had a chance to respond.

@motomania2007, good point on the insurance and liability side of things. Somehow they make it work in the UK and I can promise you insurance is no less expensive there from personal experience. Someone may know, but possibly as the CBT is a government backed and mandatory scheme there is some relief on the costs. Also I'm guessing there are some economies of scale with more people taking the tests.

I should have mentioned the relative costs of the two courses. The CMSP was $258 for two days while the CBT was roughly $160 (GBP 120) for one day so per day/hour the CBT is definitely the more expensive, but not by that much.

I don't think I want to dip my toe into the shark infested swampy minefield of the politics of personal liberty by venturing an opinion, but suffice to say there is definitely a cultural difference between the US and the UK & Europe. I would say that being able to drive a car or bike is generally seen more as an earned privilege than a right on that side of the atlantic.

@DataDan, thanks for the interesting context. I guess now I have another book to read. Arrrgh!

On the general question of lane position. I absolutely can't answer from experience, but from what I've heard and read the UK used to advise being offset from the lane center, but changed that with the advancement of car technologies meaning less oil and diesel spillage on the roads and better bike technologies such as ABS and traction control. I guess they made the calculation that the safety benefit of visibility and room to maneuver outweighed the possible downsides.

One other thing that may factor in is that it rains a hell of a lot in the UK (not counting the last few weeks in the bay area) so maybe the roads are generally cleaner of accumulated oils and mush?

 

[Enchanter]

I’ve never understood the biker message of “never ride in the center of the lane, that’s where the oil is” (emphasis on never). The only times I’ve found this to be consistently true (oil) are parking spaces, intersections, and toll booths.

 

[DataDan]

FYI, Motorcycle Roadcraft is much more informative about lane position than CBT instruction described above. Transposed, translated, and summarized:

• Left side: better view into right curves, margin of safety from shoulder hazards, better position for left turn. But watch for oncoming vehicles straddling centerline in left curves.
  
  
• Center: margin of safety on both sides, easy reposition to left or right. But in wet weather, avoid the center approaching an intersection or a curve because of oil or diesel accumulation.
  
  
• Right side: better view into left curves, extra space for oncoming vehicles. But watch for road condition and debris near shoulder.

My personal view is that traffic considerations usually outweigh inherent roadway considerations. Gimme sightlines, gimme space cushion. The rest? Meh.