matt7481
Member
Hi all,
I’m a new BARF’er and in my introductory post a few weeks ago I promised to write up a comparison of the UK CBT (Compulsory Basic Test) vs the CMSP (California Motorcycle Safety Program).
I’m a British citizen living in the US, but still holding a UK car driving license. As such I was able to complete the CBT in December last year whilst visiting family in the UK. I completed my CMSP course a couple of weeks ago here in the Bay Area and am now a proud M1 license holder.
I’m not totally sure of the logistics, but I like learning and if possible I’m going to try to complete the UK Theory and MOD1 and MOD2 tests on trips back there as well as continuing to take intermediate and advanced courses here in the US.
So what follows below are my thoughts on the two beginners courses. Obviously this is subjective from my point of view so please don’t be offended by any of this. I’m just some guy and a total newb to boot not an instructor or experienced rider. So in that spirit…enjoy, thanks.
Matt
CMSP Safety Course vs CBT
Upfront I should say that I’m unusual. I’m that guy who arrives at the course having read the handbooks cover to cover probably more than once plus having read maybe one or two other books and watched a boat load of you tube instructional videos. As such the classroom portions of each class were a little redundant to me. The CMSP in particular I found pretty repetitive (I understand that it’s designed for people who arrive having done no homework), just saying.
CMSP:
• 2 day (or 2 day + 1 evening course). About 50/50 classroom vs range (parking lot practice).
• Optional for new California riders, but gives you an exemption from the DMV skills test to get your M1 license
• Classroom covers both mornings or the evening and both mornings I think
• Range both afternoons, total time on the bike approx. 8 hours, but a lot of that you’re waiting in line.
• Class size in my case 12 pupils per class and 6 per instructor on the range
• Bikes were a mix of 125cc’s, but I believe they go up to 250cc
CBT:
• 1 day course. 5 elements.
• Classroom covers riding gear, legal requirements etc… similar on both courses
• Range covers getting started, balance, steering, slow speed skills, U-turns and stopping including emergency stops.
• Road Ride – 2 hour mandatory road ride with instructor. You are wired up so he can give instructions. Max 2 pupils per instructor covers all types of road and junctions except freeways + U turn, hill start and emergency stop as mandatory maneuvers
• Compulsory for all new riders in the UK and must be re-taken every 2 years for riders that do not go on to get their full license.
• Class size is limited to 4 to 1 on the range and 2 to 1 on the road.
• Max 125cc bikes.
Some weird or quirky differences between the UK and US.
US teaches you to turn off the bike using the kill switch every time. UK says don’t touch it unless there’s an emergency.
US course goes into countersteering and line selection. Although road positioning is covered in the UK countersteering was not even mentioned in my CBT.
UK teaches that the default best riding position is the middle of the lane or position 2, not slightly offset as in the US.
UK familiarizes you with wheeling the bike as in parking or in a garage or similar, not covered in the US.
What I liked
CMSP – more time on the bike with lots of practice of starts, stops, countersteering, emergency stops and swerves. Admittedly at low speed, but in a safe environment not having to worry about traffic.
CBT – low instructor to pupil ratio. Road ride definitely throws you in at the deep end for street riding, but really pays off. Emphasis on “real life riding” not taking track techniques to the road eg: aggressive line selection, body positioning etc….Range really stressed low speed skills like u-turns and figure of eights and got you working on clutch control and use of back brake to stay balanced
What I didn’t like
CMSP – for me overly long and repetitive classroom sessions.
CBT – I picked up bike control fairly well, but the CBT is very condensed. I love that it includes the road ride however by that point I was still getting to grips with simple things like clutch and throttle control. Some of the instruction on the road went over my head at the time. Luckily youtube came to the rescue with some really good videos out there that helped recap later.
Conclusions
To be very honest I went into this with a definite bias towards thinking the CBT would be the better of the two courses. I still think it probably is, not least because it’s mandatory for all new riders in the UK vs the optional CMSP course. However I really enjoyed the CMSP course and the ultimate verdict for me was a lot closer than I thought.
So what would be the ideal course for me? I think it would blend bits of both per below:
• Mandatory for all new riders (I actually think all car drivers should have to take this course so they are more aware of bikes on the road).
• One and a half to two days.
• Day one: Classroom to include, gear, bike controls, legal requirements, proper riding techniques on the road. Theory test. Range practice following the CMSP model. I would split the difference between the CBT and CMSP and may say the class should be 4-8 people max to speed up the learning
• Day two: Continued range practice in the morning. Range skills test. Road Ride
I’ve probably skipped over or forgotten a bunch of stuff from both courses so feel free to add to or correct my recollection.
Finally for new and also experienced riders I wanted to give a shout out to several youtube resources that I have found especially helpful both from the UK and US. I’m also throwing in itchyboots because her channel is awesome and she deserves the views.
US: motojitsu, dandanthefireman
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0FFFneMi9GwRHUsuBjM0jA
https://www.youtube.com/user/Stubbs928
UK: lexmoto (for their CBT series), Road Craft Nottingham
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_MqtB1vD-M
https://www.youtube.com/user/RoadcraftNottingham
Holland,India and Malaysia: itchyboots
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEIs9nkveW9WmYtsOcJBwTg
I’m a new BARF’er and in my introductory post a few weeks ago I promised to write up a comparison of the UK CBT (Compulsory Basic Test) vs the CMSP (California Motorcycle Safety Program).
I’m a British citizen living in the US, but still holding a UK car driving license. As such I was able to complete the CBT in December last year whilst visiting family in the UK. I completed my CMSP course a couple of weeks ago here in the Bay Area and am now a proud M1 license holder.
I’m not totally sure of the logistics, but I like learning and if possible I’m going to try to complete the UK Theory and MOD1 and MOD2 tests on trips back there as well as continuing to take intermediate and advanced courses here in the US.
So what follows below are my thoughts on the two beginners courses. Obviously this is subjective from my point of view so please don’t be offended by any of this. I’m just some guy and a total newb to boot not an instructor or experienced rider. So in that spirit…enjoy, thanks.
Matt
CMSP Safety Course vs CBT
Upfront I should say that I’m unusual. I’m that guy who arrives at the course having read the handbooks cover to cover probably more than once plus having read maybe one or two other books and watched a boat load of you tube instructional videos. As such the classroom portions of each class were a little redundant to me. The CMSP in particular I found pretty repetitive (I understand that it’s designed for people who arrive having done no homework), just saying.
CMSP:
• 2 day (or 2 day + 1 evening course). About 50/50 classroom vs range (parking lot practice).
• Optional for new California riders, but gives you an exemption from the DMV skills test to get your M1 license
• Classroom covers both mornings or the evening and both mornings I think
• Range both afternoons, total time on the bike approx. 8 hours, but a lot of that you’re waiting in line.
• Class size in my case 12 pupils per class and 6 per instructor on the range
• Bikes were a mix of 125cc’s, but I believe they go up to 250cc
CBT:
• 1 day course. 5 elements.
• Classroom covers riding gear, legal requirements etc… similar on both courses
• Range covers getting started, balance, steering, slow speed skills, U-turns and stopping including emergency stops.
• Road Ride – 2 hour mandatory road ride with instructor. You are wired up so he can give instructions. Max 2 pupils per instructor covers all types of road and junctions except freeways + U turn, hill start and emergency stop as mandatory maneuvers
• Compulsory for all new riders in the UK and must be re-taken every 2 years for riders that do not go on to get their full license.
• Class size is limited to 4 to 1 on the range and 2 to 1 on the road.
• Max 125cc bikes.
Some weird or quirky differences between the UK and US.
US teaches you to turn off the bike using the kill switch every time. UK says don’t touch it unless there’s an emergency.
US course goes into countersteering and line selection. Although road positioning is covered in the UK countersteering was not even mentioned in my CBT.
UK teaches that the default best riding position is the middle of the lane or position 2, not slightly offset as in the US.
UK familiarizes you with wheeling the bike as in parking or in a garage or similar, not covered in the US.
What I liked
CMSP – more time on the bike with lots of practice of starts, stops, countersteering, emergency stops and swerves. Admittedly at low speed, but in a safe environment not having to worry about traffic.
CBT – low instructor to pupil ratio. Road ride definitely throws you in at the deep end for street riding, but really pays off. Emphasis on “real life riding” not taking track techniques to the road eg: aggressive line selection, body positioning etc….Range really stressed low speed skills like u-turns and figure of eights and got you working on clutch control and use of back brake to stay balanced
What I didn’t like
CMSP – for me overly long and repetitive classroom sessions.
CBT – I picked up bike control fairly well, but the CBT is very condensed. I love that it includes the road ride however by that point I was still getting to grips with simple things like clutch and throttle control. Some of the instruction on the road went over my head at the time. Luckily youtube came to the rescue with some really good videos out there that helped recap later.
Conclusions
To be very honest I went into this with a definite bias towards thinking the CBT would be the better of the two courses. I still think it probably is, not least because it’s mandatory for all new riders in the UK vs the optional CMSP course. However I really enjoyed the CMSP course and the ultimate verdict for me was a lot closer than I thought.
So what would be the ideal course for me? I think it would blend bits of both per below:
• Mandatory for all new riders (I actually think all car drivers should have to take this course so they are more aware of bikes on the road).
• One and a half to two days.
• Day one: Classroom to include, gear, bike controls, legal requirements, proper riding techniques on the road. Theory test. Range practice following the CMSP model. I would split the difference between the CBT and CMSP and may say the class should be 4-8 people max to speed up the learning
• Day two: Continued range practice in the morning. Range skills test. Road Ride
I’ve probably skipped over or forgotten a bunch of stuff from both courses so feel free to add to or correct my recollection.
Finally for new and also experienced riders I wanted to give a shout out to several youtube resources that I have found especially helpful both from the UK and US. I’m also throwing in itchyboots because her channel is awesome and she deserves the views.
US: motojitsu, dandanthefireman
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0FFFneMi9GwRHUsuBjM0jA
https://www.youtube.com/user/Stubbs928
UK: lexmoto (for their CBT series), Road Craft Nottingham
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_MqtB1vD-M
https://www.youtube.com/user/RoadcraftNottingham
Holland,India and Malaysia: itchyboots
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEIs9nkveW9WmYtsOcJBwTg