To the impatient person who hit me in the pits

[ohio]

I still don't get why you and others didn't go talk to this guy after the incident. Makes no sense.

 

[Carlo]

Unless the waiver also releases other riders from responsibility, I can't see that. I mean, maybe that's how it works out, but legal responsibility doesn't just end because you are on a track. You are always culpable for damages, unless the person you damaged signed their right to prosecute away. (I'm pretty sure you would have to prosecute in court unless they caved and settled)

Reckless behavior (ie going too fast in the pits, passing someone before they've even entered the track) is probably not exempt from liability, even if it's on a track.

Now, if they'd been on the track, that might be different.

 

[sfdj_tim]

Fixed also

:rofl:rofl:rofl :| Thanks for your smartass "fix". I'll make a mental note to stay away from the guy looking back while on the track. :rolleyes

 

[Archimedes]

I think your cones are in the wrong place in your diagram.




Humm, do you look back when your heading onto the track ? Or are you one of those guys that just pull into the fast lane and get a$$ packed then ? Being oblivious to all that's happening is a great game plan.

Are not capable of understanding the difference between getting on the track and getting off the track? When I'm getting on the track, of course I look for traffic because I'm merging into them and my speed is lower than theres. When I'm getting off the track, I focus solely on what's in front of me, just like ever track instructor will tell you to do if you open your ears. Until you are into the pits, the onus is on the trailing rider to control his speed and make a safe pass. Passing anyone on the last curve entering the pits is retarded and any incident created by such is 100 percent the fault of the retard in back.

 

[Carlo]

I think you totally missed my point. If you want to survive on a motorcycle you need to look before you turn, no other factor is important. The guy could be going the wrong way, through the dirt, over the curb, through the cones, it doesn't matter, you have to look. It doesn't matter if you have the right of way, you are on a bike, you have to watch out for yourself. Same thing on the street, being in the right of way means nothing, if you get flattened.

Thanx, Russ

Don't they require you to remove your mirrors at the track?

I think there's a reasonable expectation that everyone else at the track follows the rules, which, I'm pretty sure (only done one track day myself) requires that bikes entering and leaving the pit area do so with care. Accellerating hard, and trying to pass someone on the inside of the turn leading into the pits is a pretty serious violation of track etiquette, if not the rules, and whoever did it, deserves a lawsuit if there's been a serious injury resulting from it. They should at least be shown the gate, after a thorough dressing down by the track operators.

 

[Carlo]

Absolutely not. The track is a no-fault environment, as it should be.
It's C Group, which means you're dealing with inexperienced riders. Depending on which track, when you come off (like at T-Hill, for instance), it's a very tight right hander. The rider may have come in too hot, and not been able to make the turn. Obviously, he should have slowed down before he went in to the corner... but C Group riders do some really odd, dangerous things. He also should have been looking for the person he hit, to apologize. When you screw up, you need to make it right.
OP, sorry to hear the n00b mashed you up... hope the knee heals up fast, and you're able to spend more time on the track! :thumbup

Track sessions are not races. The one that I did had a rule that anyone who crashed was done for the day. They also specified rules of conduct for entering and leaving the track safely.
The idea of a track session is that you can safely explore the limits of your bike's performance and work on improving your riding skills, with a reasonable expectation that everyone follows the safety rules they're given before the start of the day.

 

[PorradaVFR]

I have the sudden urge to invite my former manager to a free track day.

Hey, that would make a good CSI episode :teeth

Here's how it would go...

 

[Dove]

Here's how it would go...

View attachment 343930

:rofl

 

[FlewbyU]

Absolutely not. The track is a no-fault environment, as it should be.
It's C Group, which means you're dealing with inexperienced riders. Depending on which track, when you come off (like at T-Hill, for instance), it's a very tight right hander. The rider may have come in too hot, and not been able to make the turn. Obviously, he should have slowed down before he went in to the corner... but C Group riders do some really odd, dangerous things. He also should have been looking for the person he hit, to apologize. When you screw up, you need to make it right.
OP, sorry to hear the n00b mashed you up... hope the knee heals up fast, and you're able to spend more time on the track! :thumbup

Not true. There there is no such thing as a no-fault environment. What you have at a trackday is what is call primary assumption of the risk. To overcome the primary assumption of risk you need to show each of the following. (This also applies to trackday providers)

1 That the person either intentionally injured you or acted so recklessly that [his/her] conduct was entirely outside the range of ordinary activity involved in the sport or other activity;
2 That you were harmed; and
3 That the other person's conduct was a substantial factor in causing your harm.

 

[vern748]

on another note;

This is a waiver that all sign when they sign up for a track day. Some providers may be slightly different, but I am sure its all boiler plate.

Track day waiver, section 1:

1. HEREBY release, waive, discharge and covenant not to sue Provider name removed, the promoters, OTHER PARTICIPANTS, operators, officials, any persons in a restricted area, sponsors, advertisers, owners and lessees of the premises used to conduct the event... etc.

It does go on to to call other other indemnities and that you'll "save and hold harmless" the releases (i.e. the list above)

Oh, it also specifically states that you agree to the waiver even if damage or harm is caused by negligence of the releasees (which includes other riders).

etc, etc.

The last interesting point is that many contract specifically has you waive your rights to a jury trial or punitive damages and that all disputes will be settled by arbitration.

Does this mean your free and clear, NO. I am sure a good lawyer and someone really being malicious, your release will get dismissed.

 

[clutchslip]

Looking at the photo posted and the red dots on the photo, I stand by what I said.

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=343915&d=1278965036

1) You are off the track, you are off the hot pits. You are into the pits.

2) I have never seen cones there. I have seen them in the hot pits to discourage people from continuing down the hot pits.

3) Typically there are people camping at the location where the cones are marked.

4) BUT if the cones were in the hot pit and someone blew by you there, blowing the cones, then your correct, they are a douche, and I retract my opinion that your at fault.

Not picking on you, because you have apologized. Just a bit more information:
1) What's the difference? It's STILL the passing rider's responsibility.
2) I have seen cones there. I think I know who the provider is. If the photo is accurate, they were running "backwards".
3) Don't think so. They will be camping in the dirt.
4) Could have been an instructor. Or a Big Dog pass holder.

I have the sudden urge to invite my former manager to a free track day.

Hey, that would make a good CSI episode :teeth

Delete your post - NOW.

 

[planegray]

Did someone change Group Ride Rule #1 ? Damn, it seemed like such a GOOD rule :dunno

(Don't hit the person in front of you)

 

[FlewbyU]

on another note;

This is a waiver that all sign when they sign up for a track day. Some providers may be slightly different, but I am sure its all boiler plate.

Track day waiver, section 1:

1. HEREBY release, waive, discharge and covenant not to sue Provider name removed, the promoters, OTHER PARTICIPANTS, operators, officials, any persons in a restricted area, sponsors, advertisers, owners and lessees of the premises used to conduct the event... etc.

It does go on to to call other other indemnities and that you'll "save and hold harmless" the releases (i.e. the list above)

Oh, it also specifically states that you agree to the waiver even if damage or harm is caused by negligence of the releasees (which includes other riders).

etc, etc.

The last interesting point is that many contract specifically has you waive your rights to a jury trial or punitive damages and that all disputes will be settled by arbitration.

Does this mean your free and clear, NO. I am sure a good lawyer and someone really being malicious, your release will get dismissed.

The general public put too much belief in waivers. They generally do nothing more then prevent people from suing because they think, I signed a waiver so there is no liability. Many parts of a waiver are unenforceable as against public policy. See my comments on primary assumption of the risk.

 

[flying_hun]

I still don't get why you and others didn't go talk to this guy after the incident. Makes no sense.

The OP says here, and in at least one other post that friends of hers went looking for the guy, and could not find him.

I didn't get a good look at him being he came up from behind me and hit me. It wasn't a case of me passing him then cutting him off so what little bit I saw was a black bike. There were a few people looking for him and no one could find him afterwards. Due to my height (I'm all of 4'10"), I couldn't chase him down and stop at the his pits and give him a piece of my mind (my feet are 5" off the ground and I have to use blocks to stop or jump off the bike). Since I couldn't jump off the bike because of my mangled knee I had to go back to my pit to get off the bike without dumping it. Even then I needed help to get off since I couldn't hold the bike up to put the side stand down (again because of my knee). By then, nobody could find him.

 

[Carlo]

on another note;

This is a waiver that all sign when they sign up for a track day. Some providers may be slightly different, but I am sure its all boiler plate.

Track day waiver, section 1:

1. HEREBY release, waive, discharge and covenant not to sue Provider name removed, the promoters, OTHER PARTICIPANTS, operators, officials, any persons in a restricted area, sponsors, advertisers, owners and lessees of the premises used to conduct the event... etc.

It does go on to to call other other indemnities and that you'll "save and hold harmless" the releases (i.e. the list above)

Oh, it also specifically states that you agree to the waiver even if damage or harm is caused by negligence of the releasees (which includes other riders).

etc, etc.

The last interesting point is that many contract specifically has you waive your rights to a jury trial or punitive damages and that all disputes will be settled by arbitration.

Does this mean your free and clear, NO. I am sure a good lawyer and someone really being malicious, (or someone who was seriously hurt due to major negligence or malice) your release will get dismissed.

Someone else has already pointed out that legal waivers aren't ironclad protection against lawsuit.
The vintage m/c club I belong to puts on several rides a year that are open to all comers (provided they're on a bike that's 20 years + old).
We have all participants sign a waiver that reads very much like the one you quoted. One of our VP's is an attorney, who's quick to point out that this waiver won't protect the club if someone is killed or seriously injured on one of our rides.
(fortunately, we've only had a couple of minor crashes in 28 years)

 

[sfdj_tim]

Are not capable of understanding the difference between getting on the track and getting off the track? When I'm getting on the track, of course I look for traffic because I'm merging into them and my speed is lower than theres. When I'm getting off the track, I focus solely on what's in front of me, just like ever track instructor will tell you to do if you open your ears. Until you are into the pits, the onus is on the trailing rider to control his speed and make a safe pass. Passing anyone on the last curve entering the pits is retarded and any incident created by such is 100 percent the fault of the retard in back.

Thank you. It seems some people are unable to grasp the difference.

Maybe I should start looking out for squirrels, or birds, or coke bottles falling from the sky. :laughing

 

[russ69]

I don't want to whip a dead horse and the guy did a total bonehead move and is totally at fault and I'm sorry you got hurt. I've raced Button Willow in every direction and every configuration. That's raced, not track days. Anyway, the exit in that direction comes up a little quick and I've had guys blow on the inside of me in the dirt, cross in front of me as they decide at the last second to pit or not pit and a bunch of other bone head moves.
After they get off the track, then there is no telling what they will do, ignore cones, go straight, cut corners, whatever. I'm just saying be careful, and know what you are turning into (usually a guy on a bicycle) and check your six. Even the little punks on Big Wheels and skateboards can take you out. I usually sit straight up, raise a hand and ease off the exit, get my speed down and have a look around to see who might be around me as I turn off of pit lane into the pits.
I'm more careful than most.

Thanx, Russ

 

[SuperMike]

M

:facepalm

You really think gixerdeb is a guy? :laughing

 

[SNsMoto]

I doubt there are any lawyers in here. If you are serious about looking in to a lawsuit, contact a lawyer. Just because it's in those waivers, doesn't mean I can go to a track, sign one, and make it totally legal to shoot someone. There has to be some liability and common sense drawn somewhere and that sounds like a perfect place for an attorney/court to decide.

 

[sidewazzz]

on another note;

This is a waiver that all sign when they sign up for a track day. Some providers may be slightly different, but I am sure its all boiler plate.

Track day waiver, section 1:

1. HEREBY release, waive, discharge and covenant not to sue Provider name removed, the promoters, OTHER PARTICIPANTS, operators, officials, any persons in a restricted area, sponsors, advertisers, owners and lessees of the premises used to conduct the event... etc.

It does go on to to call other other indemnities and that you'll "save and hold harmless" the releases (i.e. the list above)

Oh, it also specifically states that you agree to the waiver even if damage or harm is caused by negligence of the releasees (which includes other riders).

etc, etc.

The last interesting point is that many contract specifically has you waive your rights to a jury trial or punitive damages and that all disputes will be settled by arbitration.

Does this mean your free and clear, NO. I am sure a good lawyer and someone really being malicious, your release will get dismissed.

Try doing some research next time... A few years ago california speed way was sued after a car trackday driver died in rainy conditions.