Tiered licenses

edzx6

Well-known member
I had an interesting conversation with my boss today. He raced dirt bikes when he was a kid in Southern California and was asking me about my bike I commute on to work. I have a GSXS1000F and I was telling him how it is a midrange tuned version of the GSXR race bike. He asked me the normal questions people ask about bikes, "how fast does it go" etc.

I told him I have had it at a track day and on the short straight at Streets of Willow I had it up to about 120 and there was plenty more to go. He asked what top speed was and I stated I haven't taken it to top speed but would imagine it is around 160. He was stunned. He couldnt believe that some kid could go out and buy a bike that was capable of 160 without proving he actually knows how to ride the bike. I told him it happens all the time. I have been riding for over 45 years and 35 of those are on the street. My first bike I bought was a Honda 750 and now I guess the horsepower would be compared to a 600 class bike. I think the 600's now actually put out more power and handle better for sure. He asked if there was any moral code from the sales people to not sell a bike like that to a beginner. I told him all people are different. Some (Most) would advise against it but that others will sell you what you want as long as you can pay for it. I worked in the motorcycle industry when I was young and sold plenty of bikes to kids I thought should not be buying such a bike as a starter but they didn't want the Ninja 250, they wanted the 600 or 1000.

As a salesman you don't go to Safeway and they give you free food because you saved some kid from himself and his ego. So you make the sale because you need to feed your family and let these people figure it out for themselves. This reminded me of a conversation we would have at the shop whenever we sold a bike to someone we thought was just going to get in trouble with it. Tiered licenses. For the first 2 years the largest bike you can buy is a 300cc bike. After that you can between years 2 and 4 buy up to a 600cc bike and then all bets are off. You can buy what you want.

Do you guys think this is a good idea or should people be allowed to buy what they want whether they have the experience or not?
 

Junkie

gone for now
If your "Honda 750" was a CB750, it made WAY less power than a remotely modern 600. Probably less power than an SV650...
 

Marcoose

50-50
He asked if there was any moral code from the sales people to not sell a bike like that to a beginner.
He knew the answer. He knows anybody can go to a dealership, buy a Veyron and wrap it around a tree at the first junction. He was testing you.

Do you guys think this is a good idea or should people be allowed to buy what they want whether they have the experience or not?
I went thru the tier system 30 years ago and don't regret it. I used to be a Nazi about power vs experience. Not anymore. While I still advocate for new riders to ride a twofiddy for 2-3-4 years to learn good skills without the interference of power, heck, it's their lives, their money.
 

motomania2007

TC/MSF/CMSP/ Instructor
First gen CB750 was about 55 HP, 79 CB750F was about 65 HP

Tiered licensing has been discussed adnauseum.

There are lots of pluses on the side of tiered licensing. I think it is a great idea.

Unfortunately, there is no political will power to do it. Most likely because tiered licensing is viewed as a limitation on people's right to travel.
 

zixaq

Well-known member
I've had a few of those interactions with prospective new riders. My UPS guy told me proudly that he was going to go get an R1. I think he was actually surprised at my negative reaction to that. I think I'd rather he not buy a bike than try to start on an R1.
 

budman

General Menace
Staff member
There are lots of folks like that... and kids that got their parents to only get them a 600 because it is not a 1000.

We have discussed in our MotoSafety committee and for now there is not a tier for cars and putting one in place for moto's would be difficult because of it not being fair to different vehicle types.

Trucking has some precedent for specials licensing requirements.
The Moto industry would likely fight it.. maybe one day.
 

rsrider

47% parasite 53% ahole
I've had a few of those interactions with prospective new riders. My UPS guy told me proudly that he was going to go get an R1. I think he was actually surprised at my negative reaction to that. I think I'd rather he not buy a bike than try to start on an R1.

And you didn't steer him towards a turbo 'busa, which everyone knows is the proper bike for beginners. :shame on you.
 

mitiasbikes

Well-known member
Yeah, great idea. Someone I know who is nuts as they are just got R1M...and wouldnt even listen to me why he shouldnt have gotten it.

We dont need to reinvent the wheel, just copy Brits with some modifications to the local bike buyer preferences.
 

DataDan

Mama says he's bona fide
If your boss was around in 1979 (to pick a particularly bloody year), 233 TEENAGERS died in California on streetbikes that weren't very powerful by today's standards. And an additional 263 died ages 20-24.

In 2016 (according to the new NHTSA database), 15 California teenagers died on motorcycles along with another 80 ages 20-24.

The OMFG THE KIDS ARE ALL GONNA DIE ON THOSE BULLET BIKES problem is actually not problem, or at least not a very big one.

Most people who take up motorcycling are sensible about it and advance at their own pace. Don't let the geriatric "motorcycle safety" cult tell us who they deem acceptable to join our sport and what they will be allowed to ride.
 

OldMadBrit

Well-known member
Tiered licensing + serious mandated training + very rigorous testing is pretty much everywhere except the US. It works, no question.

Its shockingly easy to get an unrestricted Moto license in the US.

The way it works here is that we resist any level of reasonable restriction, until the consequences of ignoring reasonable restrictions result in an outright ban.
 

mrzuzzo

Well-known member
Tiered licensing + serious mandated training + very rigorous testing is pretty much everywhere except the US. It works, no question.

Its shockingly easy to get an unrestricted Moto license in the US.

The way it works here is that we resist any level of reasonable restriction, until the consequences of ignoring reasonable restrictions result in an outright ban.

Why do you think it works without question?

Are a large number of accidents with new riders because their bike has too much power? I doubt it.
 

Maddevill

KNGKAW
I think it's a major shame that we didn't get tiered licensing. If we did then maybe we would have gotten the cool bikes like the NSR250, TZR250 all the 4 cylinder 250s, the NC30 and 35, the Gixxer 400 along with the ZXR400 and CBR...
le sigh......
 

ScottRNelson

Mr. Dual Sport Rider
Just one comment on this...

If there were tiered licensing, I support horsepower restrictions rather than displacement limits. For example, a KLR650 doesn't have all that much more power than a Ninja 300. But it just might be a better first bike for those tall enough to get both feet flat on the ground while straddling it.
 

OldMadBrit

Well-known member
Why do you think it works without question?

Are a large number of accidents with new riders because their bike has too much power? I doubt it.

Because the accident, injury and insurance data all supported the case for tiered licensing.

Yes lots of inexperienced riders crash harder and die more frequently because their first bike was too much for them. Go talk to medics in a trauma unit.
 
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