Porteeguee
Well-known member
Sweet write up. Now if I could only get 185hp from my zx7r:teeth
Thunderhill Walk Through by Michael Earnest
- Thread starter MrCrash
- Start date
Prof
The Professor
Just a few tidbits I gleaned during my tow from M.E. that have lowered my lap-times:
T1: The start-finish line (just past the end of the hot-pit wall) is the throttle shutoff point for the front straight.
T3: There's a box painted on the entry (look for it on your warm-up lap). Pass through this box having already started turn-in and cut across the off-cambered section of the entry.
T5: Turn in early going into the cyclone; most of the turning should be done before the candy stripe on the inside. This allows for a better drive down the hill and a better entry line for T5b.
T7: Come off T6 in third, grab fourth, and short-shift fifth going into T7; turn in late (at the very end of the straight between T6 and T7). Hold the throttle wide open and apex T7 late putting you on an angular line across the track toward the concrete patch at the entry to T8. This all depends on your gearing and how low you can let your sack hang; I suggest that the full throttle bit be approached gradually with caution, but this line is smoother and flows if done correctly; the speed that can be carried though this section is amazing.
T11: Turn in early and apex late (similar to T5a); exit far to the left and late apex T12 and T13. A bit of corner speed is sacrificed in T11, but this gives a straighter line through T12 and T13, allowing a much better drive onto the T13-T14 straight.
One more general observation; Michael is a point and shoot rider. In general, he enters and exits on the inside of corners, stands the bike upright a quickly as possible, and connects them with relatively straight lines. This minimizes the time he has the bike leaned over maximizing full throttle time and braking efficiency. This works best on liter bikes.
Thanks again to Micheal Earnest for the tow and insights. :thumbup
T1: The start-finish line (just past the end of the hot-pit wall) is the throttle shutoff point for the front straight.
T3: There's a box painted on the entry (look for it on your warm-up lap). Pass through this box having already started turn-in and cut across the off-cambered section of the entry.
T5: Turn in early going into the cyclone; most of the turning should be done before the candy stripe on the inside. This allows for a better drive down the hill and a better entry line for T5b.
T7: Come off T6 in third, grab fourth, and short-shift fifth going into T7; turn in late (at the very end of the straight between T6 and T7). Hold the throttle wide open and apex T7 late putting you on an angular line across the track toward the concrete patch at the entry to T8. This all depends on your gearing and how low you can let your sack hang; I suggest that the full throttle bit be approached gradually with caution, but this line is smoother and flows if done correctly; the speed that can be carried though this section is amazing.
T11: Turn in early and apex late (similar to T5a); exit far to the left and late apex T12 and T13. A bit of corner speed is sacrificed in T11, but this gives a straighter line through T12 and T13, allowing a much better drive onto the T13-T14 straight.
One more general observation; Michael is a point and shoot rider. In general, he enters and exits on the inside of corners, stands the bike upright a quickly as possible, and connects them with relatively straight lines. This minimizes the time he has the bike leaned over maximizing full throttle time and braking efficiency. This works best on liter bikes.
Thanks again to Micheal Earnest for the tow and insights. :thumbup
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J
JakesKTM
Guest
Awesomus thread...:thumbup I'm a noob. This helps immensely for RP's and brake/throttle markers......
Some of these turns, like T-1, I won't even have to brake much for since the bike is pegged at 120 mph down the straight. I just don't have the balls to go 115 through that turn :wow yet.......:x
Some of these turns, like T-1, I won't even have to brake much for since the bike is pegged at 120 mph down the straight. I just don't have the balls to go 115 through that turn :wow yet.......:x
Yody
Well-known member
Spend more time at max lean angle but less time leaned over.
I didn't realize that he early apexed 11, how do you early turn-in but late apex? I've seen Cory Call super super late apex T11 at the PTT school, I also really late apex that turn(avatar) but am interested in hearing more about this technique, thanks!
Oh BTW, I think I understand T5, the faster I was getting the less late of an apex I was taking, and was more like "snaking" through the turn instead of squaring it off heavily like I used too(late apex everywhere). Although this led up to holding the front brake a tad too long and you know the rest.
Prof
The Professor
Yeah, I guess that's one way to look at it. When he talks about spinning and drifting off the corners he has come off full lean early and he's relatively upright with a relatively straight line allowing him to maintain control.
That's my mistake, I guess if you turned-in to T11 early you'd apex early. The point I was trying to get across is similar to your Cory Call observation, enter at the far right and get most of turning done (square it off) on the entry giving you a really late and relatively upright apex to the far left on exit. I think of this as turning-in early.
T5 is similar to T11. It sounds like you've been doing right by squaring it off early. I've had the same snaking tendency lately cause I've been carrying more speed; I've had a few moments there too. I've noticed that there are a couple of small bumps at the crest that can upset the front end. That's another reason to be coming off of full lean early, just before the crest.
BTW are you doing Thill on Mon?
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Hooli
Big Ugly
+100
Yody
Well-known member
Totally true, however on my F4I which are known to put out about 90hp I use these lines with good results. I did the PTT school and found out that I was using really similar lines(not claiming that I have them perfected or anything) what it did for me was help me consciously take advantage of these lines. I was doing them but not realizing how what or why. I learned that to take advantage of late apexing you have to be getting on the gas early and hard, otherwise all you are doing is swooping around. They seem to work for my underpowered bike just fine. I do realize you were mentioning 250/400's which of course are less powerfull than my bike so I see what you are saying. I used to think turning in early was a sin, but after watching various 250 riders (and videos) I realized how turning in early can still work, its not bad, just different, gotta keep the momentum going.
Also I totally agree with you on reference points on throttle roll-off. On my bike if I really am trying to jam, I have to hold the throttle PAST the start/finish line before T1, and after the bridge before T14, of course if you tried that on a G1K you would probably fly your ass right off the track :laughing.
afm199
Well-known member
Vody ( :laughing) There are a lot of bikes out there with 45-75 hp that don't need those lines cause they don't go fast enough. (As Jason Pridmore put it, if the track was 300 yards wide, would you go all the way to the outside to make a turn? OF course not.
I am not saying Michael does not know what he is doing, the opposite. He has helped me out. I am just pointing out that wide lines are not for every bike or person.
I am not saying Michael does not know what he is doing, the opposite. He has helped me out. I am just pointing out that wide lines are not for every bike or person.
Yody
Well-known member
:laughing
I agree, waiting to turn in late can kill some momentum, and lowered power bikes probably can't take advantage of a late line, from what I have seen they need the momentum and corner speed to get a good drive off of the turn, rather than horsepower. Arcing through the turn rather than straightening it out helps them keep up momentum and take advantage of whatever power they have........sound about right?
I agree, waiting to turn in late can kill some momentum, and lowered power bikes probably can't take advantage of a late line, from what I have seen they need the momentum and corner speed to get a good drive off of the turn, rather than horsepower. Arcing through the turn rather than straightening it out helps them keep up momentum and take advantage of whatever power they have........sound about right?
afm199
Well-known member
On a fast lap (SV) I won't touch the brakes in T1 at Thill unless there is a tailwind. Just downshift twice and turn in. So there is somewhat more of an arc, though it still is really important to pick the bike up and get on the gas as early as possible.
Yody
Well-known member
I understand the part about not using the brake in T5, because I just learned this the hardway last trackday...whoops, but from what I've felt that is because the pavement drops off, like T3 however how does this apply in T11? I feel T11 is one of my stronger points on that track, my natural style of going wide, deep, late, and steering fast, apexing late has helped me greatly in 11 to setup for 12/13, but to be honest I "lightly" trail into 11, I mean pretty damn light but there is still a drag on the front to make sure I can reach my apex(end of candy cane) since I turn in so late sometimes I need the front brake to drag my bike onto its line and reach my intended apex. I'm interested to know why I shouldn't use the front brake at all because I'd like to not crash there. Thanks!
norcal
Himself
Here is Mike's fast lap at T-Hill on his '03 R6. Something to read what his lines are like on a smaller hp bike than the big bike he rides now.
Enjoy it, use it, live it and go fast with it.
http://www.unofficial-afm.com/t-hill.html
Enjoy it, use it, live it and go fast with it.
http://www.unofficial-afm.com/t-hill.html
Chris510
Well-known member
How many times this year did you drop it in 11?:laughing Thats the point he is making.
