this is police training?

[reckon]

:thumbdown

sunday afternoon: 1355 hrs,.......

while my fiancee and I were peeling off the (too dark and illegal) window tint on an old pos honda I bought for rainy day commuting (car is parked in my apt parking space, with a sun shade and an extension cord running to the house to run the steam cleaner) a police car just drives into my apt driveway, and then two officers get out and look in the window, and ask "what are you guys doing"? she answered "peeling the tint off", they ask is both to "step out of the car please", I ask "whats this about, are you looking for a suspect"? they both answered "NO, my partner here just transferred in from another city, and we were checking out the neighborhood and we saw this apt building, and didn't realize it was even here!", then I asked "was there a complaint?, are you on a call"? again they both answered "NO, we are just checking out what we thought was maybe a homeless person living in the car"? (except you can't see the car from the street, you have to tresspass first) they they ask us both for ID, which neither of us have since we were home working on a car on private property, my fiancee and I both give our names, I know all my numbers from memory so I rattle off my CDL,...now I'm getting pissed, it's now been 15 minutes, they won't let me move or put my hands in my pockets, or even go inside to get my damn wallet, my fiancee, who is a paraplegic and has to use leg braces to walk or stand (wasn't wearing the braces because she wanted more mobility while using the steamer and peeling the tint in the small car) has now been standing on the pavement for 15 minutes, not to mention she's scared shitless.... now 2 back up units have arrived, and there's 5 police officers in my driveway questioning me, for no reason,...my neighbors are peeking out the windows :|

of course everything comes back 10-26, no wants, warrants, not even a parking ticket, so then he runs the plates on 2 of my neighbors cars??:mad

they sheepishly say "thank you for putting up with all that", and get in the cars and leave.

ok so THAT was training? the FTO was condoning harrassment?

the thing that pisses me off is, I live in a shitty apt building down by the freeway,...if I was up at rivermark doing the exact same thing, this would never have happened. :mad

get a lawyer?, or shrug it off? if it was just me they harrassed, I probably wouldn't care, cops have a right to catch bad guys, but when you involve my wife to be, and completely without probable cause, I'm just fuming right now,...which is why I thought I'd ask some of the better policemen in the bay area; you guys here,...

so what do I do about this?

 

[afm199]

Minimum I would drop by the PD and talk to a supervisor about the situation. It's not exactly an advertisement for good community relations. If that happened to me on my property I'd be making phone calls. The argument that it is protecting the public can be an absurd one.

 

[silversvs]

:thumbdown

sunday afternoon: 1355 hrs,.......

while my fiancee and I were peeling off the (too dark and illegal) window tint on an old pos honda I bought for rainy day commuting (car is parked in my apt parking space, with a sun shade and an extension cord running to the house to run the steam cleaner) a police car just drives into my apt driveway, and then two officers get out and look in the window, and ask "what are you guys doing"? she answered "peeling the tint off", they ask is both to "step out of the car please", I ask "whats this about, are you looking for a suspect"? they both answered "NO, my partner here just transferred in from another city, and we were checking out the neighborhood and we saw this apt building, and didn't realize it was even here!", then I asked "was there a complaint?, are you on a call"? again they both answered "NO, we are just checking out what we thought was maybe a homeless person living in the car"? (except you can't see the car from the street, you have to tresspass first) they they ask us both for ID, which neither of us have since we were home working on a car on private property, my fiancee and I both give our names, I know all my numbers from memory so I rattle off my CDL,...now I'm getting pissed, it's now been 15 minutes, they won't let me move or put my hands in my pockets, or even go inside to get my damn wallet, my fiancee, who is a paraplegic and has to use leg braces to walk or stand (wasn't wearing the braces because she wanted more mobility while using the steamer and peeling the tint in the small car) has now been standing on the pavement for 15 minutes, not to mention she's scared shitless.... now 2 back up units have arrived, and there's 5 police officers in my driveway questioning me, for no reason,...my neighbors are peeking out the windows :|

of course everything comes back 10-26, no wants, warrants, not even a parking ticket, so then he runs the plates on 2 of my neighbors cars??:mad

they sheepishly say "thank you for putting up with all that", and get in the cars and leave.

ok so THAT was training? the FTO was condoning harrassment?

the thing that pisses me off is, I live in a shitty apt building down by the freeway,...if I was up at rivermark doing the exact same thing, this would never have happened. :mad

get a lawyer?, or shrug it off? if it was just me they harrassed, I probably wouldn't care, cops have a right to catch bad guys, but when you involve my wife to be, and completely without probable cause, I'm just fuming right now,...which is why I thought I'd ask some of the better policemen in the bay area; you guys here,...

so what do I do about this?

And if it had been two theives breaking into your car would you have prefered that the police officers merely drive by without doing anything?

 

[mosquito]

Sorry that had to happen to you and sorry I have no advice.

Sometimes that happens. I've been "inappropriately touched", threatened, had my apartment searched, et al. I think you're fortunate to have gotten the "thank you for putting up with all that".

 

[Dove]

And if it had been two theives breaking into your car would you have prefered that the police officers merely drive by without doing anything?

I'm all for seeing both sides of an argument but let's get real for just a minute.

I'm sure the OP had the keys to the car in his possession not to mention...how many thieves begin stealing a car by peeling the window tint off?

Common sense and common courtesy could have gone a long way towards fostering a good relationship with a couple of citizens who were doing no wrong. In all reality, they were trying to appease the law while being harassed by the law but I digress...

 

[reckon]

And if it had been two theives breaking into your car would you have prefered that the police officers merely drive by without doing anything?

you can't see the space from the street, you have to go onto the property to see anything, so why did they drive into private property in the first place?

the POINT IS, once they determined that "there was not a homeless person living in the car", they should have backed off,..but they continued this "check" long after that.

I understand they need to do their job, but why continue with the warrant checking crap, and then KEEP trying to find something (like checking my neighbors car?) and asking me if I was on parole?? :wtf , LONG after they had determined that there was no illegal activity going on?

and since they weren't on a call, or looking for a suspect, WHY did they just drive onto private property with (as they admitted) no real reason, other than pure curoisity, except the FTO admitted later in conversation, he was at the building many years ago for some drug thing, so if he was there many years ago, HOW DOES HE "not even know this was here!" :wtf (I don't like being lied to by LEO's btw)

so basically since 4 years ago a guy got busted 6 apts down from me, now we are all suspect?

plus what if: they actually DO find a bad guy, but by breaking every 4th amendment right, he gets to get off on the leo's failed procedure? I think they write those protocols for you guys to follow for a REASON, yes?

so unless one of you thoughtful PD officers can come up with some GOOD reason why I was detained on my property for removing illegal window tint on a registered, insured, perfectly bone stock honda accord, and then harrassed, along with my beautiful but hobbled fiancee for almost 20 minutes after their "reason" for being there washed out,...I think I'm going to contact a civil rights lawyer, and definitely file a written PC with the superior officer in person.

 

[Triple R]

I'm all for seeing both sides of an argument but let's get real for just a minute.

I'm sure the OP had the keys to the car in his possession not to mention...how many thieves begin stealing a car by peeling the window tint off?

Common sense and common courtesy could have gone a long way towards fostering a good relationship with a couple of citizens who were doing no wrong. In all reality, they were trying to appease the law while being harassed by the law but I digress...

Exactly :thumbup

 

[}Dragon{]

you can't see the space from the street, you have to go onto the property to see anything, so why did they drive into private property in the first place?

the POINT IS, once they determined that "there was not a homeless person living in the car", they should have backed off,..but they continued this "check" long after that.

I understand they need to do their job, but why continue with the warrant checking crap, and then KEEP trying to find something (like checking my neighbors car?) and asking me if I was on parole?? :wtf , LONG after they had determined that there was no illegal activity going on?

and since they weren't on a call, or looking for a suspect, WHY did they just drive onto private property with (as they admitted) no real reason, other than pure curoisity, except the FTO admitted later in conversation, he was at the building many years ago for some drug thing, so if he was there many years ago, HOW DOES HE "not even know this was here!" :wtf (I don't like being lied to by LEO's btw)

so basically since 4 years ago a guy got busted 6 apts down from me, now we are all suspect?

plus what if: they actually DO find a bad guy, but by breaking every 4th amendment right, he gets to get off on the leo's failed procedure? I think they write those protocols for you guys to follow for a REASON, yes?

so unless one of you thoughtful PD officers can come up with some GOOD reason why I was detained on my property for removing illegal window tint on a registered, insured, perfectly bone stock honda accord, and then harrassed, along with my beautiful but hobbled fiancee for almost 20 minutes after their "reason" for being there washed out,...I think I'm going to contact a civil rights lawyer, and definitely file a written PC with the superior officer in person.

It may be private property, but it is open to the public. The reason they ran your name out, is they want to make sure you are who you say you are. Good Officer safety would be NOT letting you go into the house to get your ID/wallet. If there was an unreported crime occuring (like someone burglarizing a car)- they'd have a place to start.

How exactly, were your civil rights violated?

 

[LongGoneJohn]

I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. The officers drove, legally, onto the private property which is open to the public. Would you say a UPS driver is trespassing when he enters the property to drop off a package? No? Then it's not illegal for a cop to do either. I know this might be just ridiculous to you -- but it's true. Guess what else we can do? We can open gates and go onto the property of a residence and contact someone, say, on the front lawn! Guess what else? That's not illegal either!

He saw a situation that seemed slightly suspicious, or at the very least, odd. I would have stopped and talked to you too. He asked for your ID -- which was consensual by your own account -- and you said you didn't have any. He asked for your name, again, consensual, and you gave it to him. To verify you were telling the truth he ran you out.

At no time, according to you, did you ask if you were being detained or free to leave -- and even if you weren't being detained (which you may have been, I'm not sure what the officers mindset was), the cops still have the legal authority to protect themselves and tell you not to put your hands in your pockets.

Continuing.... they checked out your story, made sure no one was stealing your car or the things inside of it, verified that you were who you said you were and checked other citizens vehicles in the area to ensure that they also weren't tampered with. Then they left and thanked you for your cooperation. Of course, you think this wasn't a sincere thank you.

Yup, sounds like you have a valid complaint on your hands. Please, please, spend your hard earned money on a lawyer. I'm sure during this tough economic time he/she will be glad to hear your case -- and watch it fall apart.

Pffffffffffft.

 

[reckon]

It may be private property, but it is open to the public. The reason they ran your name out, is they want to make sure you are who you say you are. Good Officer safety would be NOT letting you go into the house to get your ID/wallet. If there was an unreported crime occuring (like someone burglarizing a car)- they'd have a place to start.

How exactly, were your civil rights violated?

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized"

maybe you never read that, it's called the 4th amendment to the constitution of the united states of america.

you can start there,...then:

1) they made a paraplegic stand for nearly 20 minutes with no concern for her (OBVIOUS) physical condition, for no reason, even after she complained that her legs were hurting, and she needed to sit down.

2) they scared the shit out of her, she's never had any police contact before (now she loves you guys)

3) they detained us AT MY HOME for nearly 20 minutes for "training purposes"??

4) they abused their authority by lying about "why" they were there (if you have a right to be there, why lie?)

5) they ran a ridiculous number of checks on two innocent citizens who were doing nothing more than trying to be compliant with the law, and once they realized that no laws were being broken and there was not even suspicious activity, THEY CONTINUED TO SEARCH FOR SOMETHING ILLEGAL.

did I miss anything?

you have 5 cops shake down your S/O for no reason, and let's see how your mental state is, ok? :mad

 

[Razel]

Ok, unreasonable in your mind.
Reasonable in the mind of the officer making the initial contact.
You asked for an explanation of the "better" cops here, and basically got it. May not be what you wanted to hear.
Sorry to hear it happened to you and your soon-to-be wife. antarius pretty much covered it.

 

[LongGoneJohn]

1) Come on.
2) It's not a crime to be scared by people legally conducting their business.
3) It's not even been shown as to whether or not you were actually detained. Even if you were, you were in a public parking lot on private property. It's not a crime to be there and they don't need a warrant to walk onto that property.
4) It's not a crime for cops to lie to people.
5) Cops don't know that you're "two innocents" until they run those "ridiculous number of checks" and continue to search for something illegal.

So did you miss anything? Yes. You missed some research into case law regarding curtilage, the interpretation of the 4th amendment, private proper which is open to the public, detention or consensual contacts and a whole hell of a lot of common sense.

 

[reckon]

1) Come on.
2) It's not a crime to be scared by people legally conducting their business.
3) It's not even been shown as to whether or not you were actually detained. Even if you were, you were in a public parking lot on private property. It's not a crime to be there and they don't need a warrant to walk onto that property.
4) It's not a crime for cops to lie to people.
5) Cops don't know that you're "two innocents" until they run those "ridiculous number of checks" and continue to search for something illegal.

So did you miss anything? Yes. You missed some research into case law regarding curtilage, the interpretation of the 4th amendment, private proper which is open to the public, detention or consensual contacts and a whole hell of a lot of common sense.

I see your point, and it is a good one,....they were "somewhat" justified, and I am "somewhat" pissed off,....so I guess it's a draw,.....still to have a crippled woman stand for no reason whatsoever is ignorant at best, and downright cruel at worst, and still pisses me right the fuck off every time I think about it.

I will go down and talk with the superior, and ask him/her if he/she thinks I should file a complaint, depending on what he/she says, I'll take it from there.

I thank you all for your opinions, that IS what I asked for, and after reading the responses, it's easier to decide what to do.

the thing that gets me in the cloisters is: if I lived in a better neighborhood, or had a nicer looking car, this probably would never have happened, that's my TOTALLY subjective speculated opinion, but I can't shake that feeling.

thanks all, I'll be riding for therapy today,...

 

[LongGoneJohn]

Sounds reasonable. Ride safe.

 

[NVR FNSH]

I'll be riding for therapy today,...

Do this more often^^^^^^

Brian

 

[SVDavey]

And if it had been two theives breaking into your car would you have prefered that the police officers merely drive by without doing anything?

+1 :thumbup

 

[Dove]

(car is parked in my apt parking space, with a sun shade and an extension cord running to the house to run the steam cleaner)

For those claiming the OP is missing common sense...how much common sense does it take to realize that the citizens cleaning their car with a steam cleaner plugged into their apartment while parked in their parking spot with the doors open and window tint being removed...should I keep going? I bet you there was a registration in the dash or maybe a plate that could have been ran attached to the back of the car that would have backed up the fact that Mr. XYZ was the legal owner of the car. Common sense you say?

I can't imagine any one of you saying this scenario (as portrayed by the OP) sounds suspicious in any way? I also can't imagine that any one of you here can't put the clues together without running a warrant check on said citizens?

I won't talk any more in the leo section as I value everyone's opinion and I'm clearly not leo but seriously...not even a little compassion for his plight? There wasn't a much less invasive way to have conducted all of this?

I've been a public servant, everyone's a critic but let your guard down for one second and just imagine you're spending a nice afternoon with your s/o accomplishing a task you've had on the back burner forever when somebody else decides to take control of you and her for no reason...at least nothing you can make sense of? You have to admit that would be slightly frustrating - especially if you have to watch a loved one suffer over it.

 

[}Dragon{]

For those claiming the OP is missing common sense...how much common sense does it take to realize that the citizens cleaning their car with a steam cleaner plugged into their apartment while parked in their parking spot with the doors open and window tint being removed...should I keep going? I bet you there was a registration in the dash or maybe a plate that could have been ran attached to the back of the car that would have backed up the fact that Mr. XYZ was the legal owner of the car. Common sense you say?

I can't imagine any one of you saying this scenario (as portrayed by the OP) sounds suspicious in any way? I also can't imagine that any one of you here can't put the clues together without running a warrant check on said citizens?

I won't talk any more in the leo section as I value everyone's opinion and I'm clearly not leo but seriously...not even a little compassion for his plight? There wasn't a much less invasive way to have conducted all of this?

I've been a public servant, everyone's a critic but let your guard down for one second and just imagine you're spending a nice afternoon with your s/o accomplishing a task you've had on the back burner forever when somebody else decides to take control of you and her for no reason...at least nothing you can make sense of? You have to admit that would be slightly frustrating - especially if you have to watch a loved one suffer over it.

There are two sides to the story;

We've only heard one side of it. I have no idea what was going through the Officers minds when they decided to stop by. Have there been a rash of auto burgs in the area? Why the need for additional patrol officers? There are a ton of factors involved.

 

[Menke]

Did you ask the question "Are we free to leave?"

 

[Pushrod]

Nothing has changed since the sixties. 'reckon' has experienced power tripping by authority figures. They did it just because they could do it. In '68 & '69 it was rampant across this country and ended many times is assault by the police 'just because' and, because they are part of the power structure, the courts, if they even heard about the assault, would dismiss the charges.

My recommendation is to just suck it up, but don't forget. Eventually you'll be sitting on a panel doing jury duty. THAT is when you give payback, sitting in judgement, deciding whether or not the charge was bogus or if the police officer was out of bounds.

Often the police forget what 'public' means in the phrase 'public relations'.