The Incredibly Shrinking Trackday Schedule

[DonJigweed]

Is it me or are all three of the trackday providers posting noticeably smaller schedules? Is it typical that they add a bunch of days during the year? I know they add some, but I don't see very "premium" weekend slots on their schedules.

Is this a reflection of the broader economy? The 1%ers (car guys) doing great, the working class (bike guys) getting fucked?

 

[Razor]

I think this is a trend that's been going on for years.

 

[phocup]

I guess the way to look at the bright side of this is to see that us "working class" guys can still afford trackdays ? :ride

In all seriousness, its not that bad. I count 4 weekends with PTT, 5 with Keigwin ( 6 if you count their memorial 3 day weekend noob school @ Laguna sun mon tues ), and 5 weekends with Z2 not including possible Laguna dates to be added . That's 14-15 full weekends at various tracks.

What I did notice was that there seem to never be any trackdays on Wed / Thur. I wonder why ?

 

[Daredevil]

less days
more signups per day
more money per event
more profits.

 

[phocup]

Nah, if pure profit was the aim, full weekends would IMO be better to attract big crowds.

VS for example a random Wed @ THill ( Apr 2nd ) which only the die hard track guys or the ones who live very close to the track will go to.

 

[Daredevil]

Nah, if pure profit was the aim, full weekends would IMO be better to attract big crowds.

VS for example a random Wed @ THill ( Apr 2nd ) which only the die hard track guys or the ones who live very close to the track will go to.

there's also the question of availability to the TDP. not everyone gets first pick.

 

[Jello_Biafra]

Basically... ask the tracks. There are a few factors involved and they all stem from how the tracks sell their days. These factors have added both upfront costs as well as risk (business, not physical) that were not previously present.

 

[SLOWREX03]

Nah, if pure profit was the aim, full weekends would IMO be better to attract big crowds.

VS for example a random Wed @ THill ( Apr 2nd ) which only the die hard track guys or the ones who live very close to the track will go to.

or those of us that work weekends.....

 

[DonJigweed]

Basically... ask the tracks. There are a few factors involved and they all stem from how the tracks sell their days. These factors have added both upfront costs as well as risk (business, not physical) that were not previously present.

Interesting. So the tracks ask for more money up front? Or ask for more committment of days purchased to get a certain rate?

Are the tracks just trying to squeeze out as much as they can? Or do they have plenty of other customers and don't mind so much if the bikes are buying fewer days?

 

[Jello_Biafra]

Well, yes. Flat rate vs. per rider. Flat rate is riskier to the customer but carries a greater potential for payoff. I don't expect that the end user will notice a difference except that there now exists an incentive to stuff the groups at Thunderhill.

I suspect that if there is indeed a smaller number of bike days this year it's because providers are kind of feeling it out. They've all done it before at Sears Point and, well, Sears Point trackdays aren't exactly plentiful these days. There's more going on there just from a purely cost standpoint but the flat rate structure may play a role. Certainly it seems easier to commit to a Sears Point day if you only need to sell enough spots to cover some overhead costs.

Just to be clear, I don't know if there actually exists a shortage of Thunderhill days this year or if this is the reason why. The change, though, is a pretty big one. If I had a TDP I'd take a real hard look at what I would have made/lost last year under the new structure and consider how the motorsports and overall economy is trending.

 

[DonJigweed]

So you're saying the tracks moved to flat rate, where previously they were charging per rider? How did that work in the past? If you were a provider you gave them a deposit upfront to reserve the day, and then the balance depended on how many riders showed up? If that's the case, seems to me the track owners are cunts to move to a flat rate now. Per rider is basically the sharecropper model. We own the track and we'll pay you a fee to bring in riders and organize the thing, but we see that you can pack the house quite often, so we're going to make sure we don't leave anything on the table there, we're gonna get our cut of every rider that comes through your doors.

I'm assuming trackday patronage is down, compared to a few years ago. That assumption may very well be wrong, but I base it on AFM grids seemingly dwindling and the economy generally still being in the toilet. So now that the track owners see rider numbers falling, they're like, "Oh, by the way, it's a flat fee to rent the track now." Basically, they want to assume no risk anymore for weak grids.

To be expected I guess. Capital always looks to ram it in and break it off inside Labor.

 

[MZarra]

I felt the same way; that this year was lighter than last year.

But I just counted and we had 66 track days last year including Miller.

This year we have 65 track days including Oregon. There are also more doubled up days this year than last (Z2 at one place and Keigwins at another, etc.).

So the schedule feels odd, it is not lighter.

 

[afm199]

Is it me or are all three of the trackday providers posting noticeably smaller schedules? Is it typical that they add a bunch of days during the year? I know they add some, but I don't see very "premium" weekend slots on their schedules.

Is this a reflection of the broader economy? The 1%ers (car guys) doing great, the working class (bike guys) getting fucked?

Several things going on. Ten years ago, if a Trackday Provider (TDP) booked Sears Point, it sold out overnight. That never happens now. Never. It may not book completely until a week or two before the event, and less if the weather is iffy. Several of the TDP's took a huge hit on rainy day events ( they have to pay regardless, in most cases) and don't want that to happen again. So basically TDP's are more cautious now. Iffy events (Jan-mid march, nov-dec) seldom get booked.

 

[DonJigweed]

I felt the same way; that this year was lighter than last year.

But I just counted and we had 66 track days last year including Miller.

Not trying to play the gotcha game, just genuinely interested in the dynamics....

I count 36 days this year compared to 44 days in 2010.

Following what Ernie said, most of the difference seems to be down to days very early in the year or very late in the year, ie when weather is iffy. Makes sense I think, and not really too bothersome, as the fat part of the year, when the track is good, is basically the same.

 

[clutchslip]

Not trying to play the gotcha game, just genuinely interested in the dynamics....

I count 36 days this year compared to 44 days in 2010.

Following what Ernie said, most of the difference seems to be down to days very early in the year or very late in the year, ie when weather is iffy. Makes sense I think, and not really too bothersome, as the fat part of the year, when the track is good, is basically the same.

You might also note, using your one provider, that K@TT has more Laguna days. Those days are also cheaper, this year. Since Laguna has a limit on attendees, and it is relatively expensive to rent, that seems significant. Perhaps those with expendable income would rather ride there than Buttonwillow? Would I rather ride Laguna than other California tracks? Ya' betch ya'. So, it is a positive for me.

Neither year included Miller, which I think reflects more on a declining flush clientele base. The number of days and location of the other two biggies, is even more indicative of a market that has shrunk. Last year ZZ had a weekend at Sears that was not filled. I was shocked.

My conclusion: Spend lots of track-day money before they go the way of the dodo bird or paisley shirts.

 

[Jello_Biafra]

So you're saying the tracks moved to flat rate, where previously they were charging per rider?

Just one track, the others were already flat rate.

I agree with the analysis, especially the last sentence.

 

[Razor]

Seems like straightforward supply and demand economics to me. Trackdays are definitely a luxury item, though I do find it odd that housing prices keep skyrocketing in the bay area, but motorcycling is not. Certainly there are large segments of the population with more and more disposable income, and pretty big infusions of money into the local economy.

In any case, available days will (somewhat) follow demand. Days don't sell out like they used to, so providers are not going to provide a bunch of days that people don't want to go to. That would be a poor decision.

When (if?) sportbikes start selling like crazy again, I would expect trackdays to heat up again, both from an attendance and a # of days perspective.

 

[DonJigweed]

though I do find it odd that housing prices keep skyrocketing in the bay area, but motorcycling is not. Certainly there are large segments of the population with more and more disposable income, and pretty big infusions of money into the local economy.

It's a desirable place to be, and with limited opportunity for housing development and stupid zoning laws, combined with lots of speculators chasing yield and plenty of Asian investment looking for shelter from central bank currency devaluation, you get the clusterfuck that is Bay Area housing.

http://www.sfgate.com/business/netw...ome-purchases-top-50-reports-says-4744757.php

 

[CCrider]

Pacific track time has had 20 track days for several years and 2014 is no different. They are adding a road trip to PIR for Friday June 20 and The Ridge Motorsports Park, Sat/ Sun 21/21 June, if anyone wants to go along. Call Ken Casey or email ken@pacifictracktime.com for info.

 

[CCrider]

Nah, if pure profit was the aim, full weekends would IMO be better to attract big crowds.

VS for example a random Wed @ THill ( Apr 2nd ) which only the die hard track guys or the ones who live very close to the track will go to.

The April 2nd track day is an event to remember Kenny Henry who passed away last November. April 2nd was his birthday and I believe that more than the die hard track guys will attend. Kenny had lots of friends and I think lots will be there, myself included.