The Harley Pan America Thread

Gary856

Gary856

Are we having fun yet?
ScottRNelson said:
It's also pretty cool that the suspension can drop an inch or two when you stop the bike. You short riders don't have to whine about not being able to get your feet down. :laughing
Click to expand...

The bikes in vintage Harley footages are stripped down with low seat height and skinny tires; they actually look right to push thru mud and snow. They're more like dirt bikes than today's fully loaded giant Adventure bikes.

I was thinking about easy ways to lower seat height on the fly. Instead of changing the ride height, wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to to change the seat height a few inches, similar to dropper seatposts (spring-loaded quick adjusting seatposts) on mountain bikes?
 
Last edited:
gixxerjeff

gixxerjeff

Dogs best friend
If it's a good idea the purists will hate it.
If it's a good idea it's doomed.
Harley has been a victim of it's own image and marketing for years. They have tried to break away from their legacy time and time again with solid platforms that end up getting stifled and smothered to death from within. Eric Buell is only one example. The V-Rod and the XR also come quickly to mind.
I'll believe they can change as soon as they can successfully sell something other than a fatboy-roadking-dynabob for any length of time. Loud pipes don't save lives but they do sell a one dimentional cookie cutter motorcycle.
 
ScottRNelson

ScottRNelson

Mr. Dual Sport Rider
Gary856 said:
I was thinking about easy ways to lower seat height on the fly. Instead of changing the ride height, wouldn't it be easier/cheaper to to change the seat height a few inches, similar to dropper seatposts (spring-loaded quick adjusting seatposts) on mountain bikes?
Click to expand...
According to either the video or the CW article (I forget which), the bike stays lowered as you accelerate away from a stop, then it rises back up before you get to the first corner. Supposed to be able to accelerate a bit harder with the weight lower.
 
berth

berth

Well-known member
gixxerjeff said:
If it's a good idea the purists will hate it.
If it's a good idea it's doomed.
Harley has been a victim of it's own image and marketing for years. They have tried to break away from their legacy time and time again with solid platforms that end up getting stifled and smothered to death from within. Eric Buell is only one example. The V-Rod and the XR also come quickly to mind.
I'll believe they can change as soon as they can successfully sell something other than a fatboy-roadking-dynabob for any length of time. Loud pipes don't save lives but they do sell a one dimentional cookie cutter motorcycle.
Click to expand...

My local BMW dealer has opened up a new showroom across the street.

I have not been there, but in it he's specializing in "vintage style" bikes, notably things like the R18 and the R9T. I don't know if they're promoting a customs shop, or what.

But, ostensibly, it's a bit of a different shopping experience for related styles of motorcycles.

I don't know how well R18's sell when parked next to a full boat GS or a K1600.

I also don't know if this is his own initiative, or one coming from BMW.

Nevertheless, the point being that if you walk in to a Harley store, it's a Harley store. Festooned with leather and logos and clothing and, oh, yea, there's some motorcycles over there.

For many, that can be off putting when you're looking for a bike and not a lifestyle. Buells looked out of place, and the gear Buell riders would probably want, there's not much room for. Similarly with this ADV bike. Not sure if I can visualize a rack of Klim gear next to the leather jackets.

Yamaha came out with the V-Star. Even to the point that at the annual motorcycle show, they had a V-Star booth as well as a Yamaha booth. They were trying to address the dichotomy of the market, and segregate the brand and, perhaps, the experience with the brand.

I don't know how this manifest out in the real world. I don't know if Yamaha dealers put up dedicated V-Star displays with racks of clothing and gear, or what. But it's an interesting idea.

Curious if Harley needs to do the same. Rebrand, and put some more distinct focus on the brand in order to better diversify.

The discussion about Tiger Woods and the Genesis, Hyundai has not, yet, created dedicated Genesis dealers like Lexus and Acura (I don't think). You have to go to Hyundai. Similar, Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge dealers, you have folks bringing in $80-100K vehicles (with ostensibly high margins) at a place that also must cater to folks buying Dodge Darts.

Folks looking for an ADV bike may not be looking for quite the full boat Harley experience current dealerships offer.
 
MikeL

MikeL

Well-known member
berth said:
My local BMW dealer has opened up a new showroom across the street.

I have not been there, but in it he's specializing in "vintage style" bikes, notably things like the R18 and the R9T. I don't know if they're promoting a customs shop, or what.

But, ostensibly, it's a bit of a different shopping experience for related styles of motorcycles.

I don't know how well R18's sell when parked next to a full boat GS or a K1600.

I also don't know if this is his own initiative, or one coming from BMW.

Nevertheless, the point being that if you walk in to a Harley store, it's a Harley store. Festooned with leather and logos and clothing and, oh, yea, there's some motorcycles over there.

For many, that can be off putting when you're looking for a bike and not a lifestyle. Buells looked out of place, and the gear Buell riders would probably want, there's not much room for. Similarly with this ADV bike. Not sure if I can visualize a rack of Klim gear next to the leather jackets.

Yamaha came out with the V-Star. Even to the point that at the annual motorcycle show, they had a V-Star booth as well as a Yamaha booth. They were trying to address the dichotomy of the market, and segregate the brand and, perhaps, the experience with the brand.

I don't know how this manifest out in the real world. I don't know if Yamaha dealers put up dedicated V-Star displays with racks of clothing and gear, or what. But it's an interesting idea.

Curious if Harley needs to do the same. Rebrand, and put some more distinct focus on the brand in order to better diversify.

The discussion about Tiger Woods and the Genesis, Hyundai has not, yet, created dedicated Genesis dealers like Lexus and Acura (I don't think). You have to go to Hyundai. Similar, Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge dealers, you have folks bringing in $80-100K vehicles (with ostensibly high margins) at a place that also must cater to folks buying Dodge Darts.

Folks looking for an ADV bike may not be looking for quite the full boat Harley experience current dealerships offer.
Click to expand...

Isn't the other issue that Harley sales team is usually made up of 'hardcore' Harley riders? They didn't want to sell you a Buell because it's not what they would buy.
 
VicTim

VicTim

VMCSF
Time will tell if someone looking for an adventure bike will feel comfortable enough inside a Harley dealership. I think this may actually be an issue specially in certain regions. Time will tell.
 
ScottRNelson

ScottRNelson

Mr. Dual Sport Rider
MikeL said:
Isn't the other issue that Harley sales team is usually made up of 'hardcore' Harley riders? They didn't want to sell you a Buell because it's not what they would buy.
Click to expand...
It depends on the dealership. The three Harley dealers near the last three houses that I've lived in had people who rode other types of bikes. Those would be Harley-Davidson of Folsom, Livermore Harley-Davidson and High Desert Harley-Davidson.

There was a Harley dealer in San Ramon that was the other type, though.

I'm going to go visit the local Harley dealer to see what they have to say about the new Pan America. I would expect them to be enthusiastic about it.
 
SFMCjohn

SFMCjohn

13
when I purchased my HD in New Jersey in February, 1985, we had a HD dealer in Bound Brook that also sold Schwinn bicycles. Basically a storefront, you’d walk in the front door past a row of bicycles on one side and motorcycles on the other to get to the parts/service counter. there was a glass window you could look into where the mechanic’s shop area was, clean and well lit, uniformed guys with gray flat-top crew cuts with neat and tidy work areas, tools arranged on the wall. everyone looked like they’d been around since the ‘50s ... they were still there in ‘93 and serviced my EVO (stock, prolly 30hp) before I rode it to out to SF.

always got a kick out of imagining a kid having gotten a bicycle there going back to buy a moto ...

don’t recall that they had any t-shirts for sale. loved that place, sure it’s long gone ... :laughing:blah

Adventure Rider has a piece on the new engine:
Breaking Harley-Davidson Revolution Max 1250 engine: The MoCo’s future?
“This V-twin is a big change from business as usual.”

tl/dr:
The new Revolution Max 1250 is Harley-Davidson’s most powerful engine available in an off-the-shelf bike, ever. The Harley-Davidson Screamin’ Eagle 131 Crate Engine, released with much ballyhoo last year, only made 121 hp. The new 1250 is supposed to make 150 hp, and 94 lb-ft of torque.

Those are basically sci-fi numbers for old-school Harley-Davidson owners ...
Click to expand...

:party
 
Last edited:
stratslingr77

stratslingr77

Well-known member
ScottRNelson said:
It depends on the dealership. The three Harley dealers near the last three houses that I've lived in had people who rode other types of bikes. Those would be Harley-Davidson of Folsom, Livermore Harley-Davidson and High Desert Harley-Davidson.

There was a Harley dealer in San Ramon that was the other type, though.

I'm going to go visit the local Harley dealer to see what they have to say about the new Pan America. I would expect them to be enthusiastic about it.
Click to expand...

Not sure how long you've been away...I recall joining you on one of your Palomares lunch rides back around 2010-2011 or so. Anyway, that San Ramon dealer is long gone and their Walnut Creek shop moved to Pacheco.
 
ScottRNelson

ScottRNelson

Mr. Dual Sport Rider
stratslingr77 said:
Not sure how long you've been away...I recall joining you on one of your Palomares lunch rides back around 2010-2011 or so. Anyway, that San Ramon dealer is long gone and their Walnut Creek shop moved to Pacheco.
Click to expand...
I left three years ago. And I know that San Ramon dealer is long gone. I don't see how they could have lasted very long the way it was run. The Livermore Harley dealer is decent.
 
HadesOmega

HadesOmega

Well-known member
I went to the SJ HD dealer and the Livermore HD dealer to do a demo ride and I felt more welcomed at the Livermore HD dealer, if I ever buy a new Harley Davidson I will drive out to Livermore and buy one from them.

I have to say the cinematic in that video were pretty cool. The reality of it is the bike will making trips to Starbucks.

I can't help but feel the front of the Pan Am looks like a goldwing. It looks expensive also at $20000 that puts it up there with the GSA. I can't imagine how much an electric version would cost then if the Livewire is $30k. They could totally made it and call it Long Way Up version with Ewan and Charlies autographs on it.

Doesn't that look a lot better? It's leaner lookin. If you don't know the Livewires in Long Way Up had a lot of parts from the Pan America on it to make it more adventure worthy.
LWU_LayeredMediaCard_Landscape.jpg

harley-davidson-pan-america-1250-special-91.jpg
 
Last edited:
ob1ventura

ob1ventura

Well-known member
HadesOmega said:
I went to the SJ HD dealer and the Livermore HD dealer to do a demo ride and I felt more welcomed at the Livermore HD dealer, if I ever buy a new Harley Davidson I will drive out to Livermore and buy one from them.

I have to say the cinematic in that video were pretty cool. The reality of it is the bike will making trips to Starbucks.

I can't help but feel the front of the Pan Am looks like a goldwing. It looks expensive also at $20000 that puts it up there with the GSA. I can't imagine how much an electric version would cost then if the Livewire is $30k. They could totally made it and call it Long Way Up version with Ewan and Charlies autographs on it.

Doesn't that look a lot better? It's leaner lookin. If you don't know the Livewires in Long Way Up had a lot of parts from the Pan America on it to make it more adventure worthy.
LWU_LayeredMediaCard_Landscape.jpg

harley-davidson-pan-america-1250-special-91.jpg
Click to expand...

Agreed re: Livermore HD. I live in Moss Beach and often ride out there for parts instead of the heading over to those closer.
 
yodaisgod

yodaisgod

KHAAAAAN!
berth said:
The discussion about Tiger Woods and the Genesis, Hyundai has not, yet, created dedicated Genesis dealers like Lexus and Acura (I don't think). You have to go to Hyundai. Similar, Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge dealers, you have folks bringing in $80-100K vehicles (with ostensibly high margins) at a place that also must cater to folks buying Dodge Darts.
Click to expand...


Hyundai is pushing their dealers to open up a Genesis only store. Right now, they are requiring a dedicated showroom space and Genesis "certified" sales people according to some friends I know in the business.

The buying experience with many Hyundai dealers hasn't been good for customers. Tolerated because you are getting a good value for your dollar with a Hyundai over a similarly equipped Honda or Toyota.

Right now both Hyundai and Kia are benefitting from the Palisades/Telluride SUVs along with their redesigned Santa Fe/Sorento that are brining buyers in who can potentially flip to a Genesis GV70 or GV80 now or later.
 
norcalkid

norcalkid

Well-known member
ScottRNelson said:
According to either the video or the CW article (I forget which), the bike stays lowered as you accelerate away from a stop, then it rises back up before you get to the first corner. Supposed to be able to accelerate a bit harder with the weight lower.
Click to expand...

The way I understand it that suspension lowering system is a $1000 factory installed optional upgrade only available on the Sport model. So That's a 21k bike + fees if that's the route you want to go. On par with the BMW but 24k or so OTD for a second vehicle is guna eliminate a lot of potential buyers. I wish they had a second one with the 880 or whatever more along the price of a Sportster.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top