Super Dinosaur Questions

[MrCrash]

I'm trying to put together a bit of history on the class. Looks like 1996 was the first year - top three for the season were:

1. Douglas Elliott
2. Enzo Ferrara
3. Jason Mraz

Soon afterwards, I remember Paul Reynen running at the front on that FZ750 thing. These days, some reasonable fast machines appear to be out there.

Some questions:

1. What kinds of bikes were on the grid in that first year?

2. Wasn't the class originally for motorcycles 17 years old (or older)?

3. When did it change to 12 years? And what were the reasons for the change?

 

[dgrace]

It changed to 12 years in 2008 I believe. I had requested a rules change to allow bikes in based on the first year of their unchanged "generation", basically I wanted to run my '94 F2 in super dino based on the fact that the '91 F2 was eligible and the bike hadn't changed over those years. (and I didn't want to go source an identical '91 frame just to make the grid) Not sure who decided to just make it 12 years, but that was the answer I got. Personally I think 12 isn't Dino enough. It's old but not fossilized, kinda like Ernie. :

dave

 

[LongGoneJohn]

I agree!!!

 

[bite me]

It changed to 12 years in 2008 I believe. I had requested a rules change to allow bikes in based on the first year of their unchanged "generation", basically I wanted to run my '94 F2 in super dino based on the fact that the '91 F2 was eligible and the bike hadn't changed over those years. (and I didn't want to go source an identical '91 frame just to make the grid) Not sure who decided to just make it 12 years, but that was the answer I got. Personally I think 12 isn't Dino enough. It's old but not fossilized, kinda like Ernie. :

dave

Wow thats insane that an f2 would classy as dinasour shows my vintage i suppose. :x

 

[Gary J]

Soon afterwards, I remember Paul Reynen running at the front on that FZ750 thing.
1. What kinds of bikes were on the grid in that first year?

As a bit of history from around this time Mike.

There was a tearm called "Team Tyrannosaurus X", running a monster 6-cyliner, Honda "CBX". The bike was owned and built by Mike Dondellinger. Denny Doherty was the pilot on the bike for a few years, and did well on it, before he got hurt (on his own racebike in other classes) and retired.

I took on the role as pilot for the monster TTX CBX after Denny stepped down, and raced the bike as the sole pilot through the bike's ultimate race retirement a few years later. The retirement mostly coming as a result of the reduced bike cut-off eligibility (15 years?) rule that came into effect at that time; putting the CBX out of contention with the newer machinery then taking to the SD grids.

During the period I raced the CBX we managed to knock almost 4 seconds/lap off Denny's best Sears Point times. Pushing the CBX to the limits of the laws a physice resulted in getting down to 1:57's at Sears Point. This was on the original long Turn 11, haybale chicane version of track. That lap time was good enough to officially quality for FP at that era!

The big CBX even gave Paul Reyen a real run for his money at one Sears Point round, on his seriously built FZ750 that was more new bike R1 parts than original vintage hardware.

Surprised Paul in having followed him a bit back for 6 laps of the race, before sneaking up and putting a late-brake pass on him going into Turn 11, on the end of the penultimate lap. His reaction was priceless in seeing what had just passed him. :laughing

Should have waited one lap longer, as Paul motored back on by on power, on the white flag lap heading down the back straight to Turn 7. We both caught some backmarker traffic from there to the checkered flag, so ended up a very close 2nd.

It was always a gas to go down through the Carousel on the CBX, balancing the weight of the bike on-an-off of the exhaust pipes to the pavement, and leaving a shower of sparks light show for the spectators and corner worker in that area! :laughing Always got a lot of comments from folks about the monster CBX out there on track.

If you check in with Mike D., he's got a lot of great photos and notes from the racing of the CBX in the Super Dino class with the AFM, in that era.

Be interested in seeing what you put together on the article Mike; when you get it done. :thumbup

Gary J (AFM #13)

 

[MrCrash]

I remember the T-Rex. And I remember Paul's reaction when you passed him

Had no idea you got that thing down to 1:57s - that's flying on that beast!

Dave, I'll pitch the question to the AFM list as well - one of the Montoyas, Kevin Smith, or Fozzy probably know the answer. My guess is that it was done to revive the class due to poor entry numbers, but I haven't done the research to back that up.

 

[afm199]

I remember the T-Rex. And I remember Paul's reaction when you passed him

Had no idea you got that thing down to 1:57s - that's flying on that beast!

Dave, I'll pitch the question to the AFM list as well - one of the Montoyas, Kevin Smith, or Fozzy probably know the answer. My guess is that it was done to revive the class due to poor entry numbers, but I haven't done the research to back that up.

Probably so. Once upon a time the Vintage class actually fielded 7-10 bikes, not the two or three it does now. In fact I am not sure there are any Vintage races now. i assume the same for Super Dino.

Thanks Dave!

 

[dgrace]

Dave, I'll pitch the question to the AFM list as well - one of the Montoyas, Kevin Smith, or Fozzy probably know the answer. My guess is that it was done to revive the class due to poor entry numbers, but I haven't done the research to back that up.

2008 was well past the Montoya era I think - actually Alex was on the board at the time and might have info. As it worked out, I ended up getting smoked (as did everyone else) by Michael Boyer on his '91 - that guy can ride!

dave

 

[brattitos]

The 99 sv qualifies this year? If so, should it show up on my race choicies?

 

[sportbikenight]

>>>1. What kinds of bikes were on the grid in that first year?

I’m pretty sure Enzo Ferrara was piloting an RZ350. He also raced 450 super with the same bike.


>>>2. Wasn't the class originally for motorcycles 17 years old (or older)?

Don’t remember that one.


>>>3. When did it change to 12 years? And what were the reasons for the change?

I halfway remember the grids for super-dino were not growing and possibly getting smaller. The idea of the 12 year cut-off potentially would allow more bikes to participate and hopefully grow the class.

That’s what I think I remember.

I'm trying to put together a bit of history on the class. Looks like 1996 was the first year - top three for the season were:

1. Douglas Elliott
2. Enzo Ferrara
3. Jason Mraz

Soon afterwards, I remember Paul Reynen running at the front on that FZ750 thing. These days, some reasonable fast machines appear to be out there.

Some questions:

1. What kinds of bikes were on the grid in that first year?

2. Wasn't the class originally for motorcycles 17 years old (or older)?

3. When did it change to 12 years? And what were the reasons for the change?

 

[Haazer45]

The cut off year used to be 1985 for years until the number of participants started to dwindle. There used to be 5 FZ 750's on the grid , Bob Hayashida on his Cb750/900F , Jove Shapiro on his BMW R90 a few Ducati's, Ed Haazer(me) on his Z1 (still running in class)
Enzo Ferrara on his RZ350 (wicked fast) , Bill Schaal on a RZ350 , and another guy on a Harley 883 and the CBX run by Doherty and Gary
All in all a pretty decent grid, then less and less people started showing up and then Jon Bawden entered a race on a 1985 GSXR 750 that was imported from Japan (they had set the year at 1985 to prevent the GSXR's from entering the class since they did not sell this bike in the USA until 1986)
I protested the bike after the race since I thought it was illegal for the class and then the paperwork was presented proving it was indeed "legal" for the class.
I had requested in board meetings prior to this race to allow the use of slicks in the class but was told this was going to make it too expensive for people to have to change wheels and that they wanted to keep it a "low" cost class ( so NO slicks )
Went back to the next board meeting to question the sanity of not allowing the use of slicks ( too expensive an alteration) but at the same time allowing someone to import a bike from Japan as a way to circumvent the rules.
Ran my bike with slicks anyway and was promptly disqualified.
A few years go by and now my bike is somewhere in Nomansland ; too new for vintage and too old to really compete with a '99 bike .
I personally think the cut-off year should be somewhere around '96 as there seem to be enough people participating to make a decent grid.
If I had a bike built in '99 I would ride it in the class is was designed for (and finish in the front half of the grid) and not come cherrypicking in the Superdino class.

 

[Corey]

I would figure there would be more racing in SD, but it is a great bunch of old bikes, not just old guys.

Here is the first of that CBX Super Dinosaur Video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQpr763NQHw

If newer bikes keep entering SD it might be call Super 12 Years instead. Either way, I'm in this class for the long haul as my GPz550 progresses, as so does it's rider.

There are a lot of bikes that qualify for this class, and it should be bigger.

I always say, "Bring out your dead...Bing!"

 

[EastBayDave]

I think it should be pre-1983. That would exclude the HON Interceptor, GSXR, Ninja, FZ, & other bikes that became "too-advanced" & would later be considered the 1st "sportbikes."

But what do I know...if your only getting a handful of riders each race, perhaps it should expand?

 

[LongGoneJohn]

We're getting 16-19 riders a race.

Im happy with the rules, but when it fills up with 2000-2001 GSXR1000's, something's gonna have to change. IMO.

 

[duh_ave]

Mike, yes, it was 17 years and was changed to 12 3 or 4 years ago. Reasoning behind it was to help the class grow.
I personally think it needs to be capped again; the f2/ f3's... ok, but R1's and GSXR 1k's... seems to be getting ridiculous.

@ brattitos, yes, but it runs at the same time as 650 prod

 

[LongGoneJohn]

Mike, yes, it was 17 years and was changed to 12 3 or 4 years ago. Reasoning behind it was to help the class grow.
I personally think it needs to be capped again; the f2/ f3's... ok, but R1's and GSXR 1k's... seems to be getting ridiculous.

@ brattitos, yes, but it runs at the same time as 650 prod

Agreed. I think Superdino is supposed to be non-modern era bikes. Not quite vintage, but not curren era. A 2000 R1 and GSXR and such is very much modern era.

A cap at '97 would keep it out of the modern era and still have large grids.

I do agree with Dave Graces idea that it should be based on the first year of that particular bike. If there's literally no difference between a 91 and 94, a 94 should be allowed.

 

[duh_ave]

Agreed. I think Superdino is supposed to be non-modern era bikes. Not quite vintage, but not curren era. A 2000 R1 and GSXR and such is very much modern era.

A cap at '97 would keep it out of the modern era and still have large grids.

I do agree with Dave Graces idea that it should be based on the first year of that particular bike. If there's literally no difference between a 91 and 94, a 94 should be allowed.

understood, but then you get into all kinds of cheesy arguments for tech to deal with as well as having to keep track of various makes/ models. Its much easier and simpler to just draw a line.
I doubt the year would be drawn back to '97 (currently '99) but maybe cap it where it is?
Rules stuff is coming up in a few months. Hang on the thoughts please!

 

[dgrace]

After '99 the bike generations seem to have started changing a lot more frequently anyway; it'd be much harder to do the "same as start year" plan. Drawing a line at '99 might work out. (though I believe you'd still have Yamaha R1's, and Rob Mesa could always show up with that OW01 he's got in the garage..) Probably the bike to beat would be a well-setup Duc 996 - or maybe '99 was the year of the 998?

Not that my opinion matters much - I'm 5000 miles away!

dave

 

[LongGoneJohn]

It does matter though, because your bike lives on!!!