simoncelli's agv helmet strap

[shoelace]

some of you may already know about this, so i'm sorry if this has been posted already. i did a a quick search in the general forum and didn't see anything, so here it goes. this is fucking crazy.

so i'm at monroe yesterday and i'm flipping through this awesome motogp calendar that is on the cabinet at the register. for december, there's an amazing picture of simoncelli passing stoner on the inside. a real fitting picture. i pick it up and show my buddy, and we're all, "aww... amazing." someone who works there does the same thing, and i say, "i still can't figure out how the hell his helmet came off."

then she says that an agv rep had come into the store and told her that THE STRAP IS DESIGNED TO BREAK FREE UNDER TREMENDOUS STRESS wait, i asked if i heard this right. and then i recall watching the slow motion videos and noting that the strap had looked really long as the helmet was rolling away from the head that it was supposed to be on.

in what universe would someone think that it would be advantageous to lose your helmet? is the theory that your head might come off if the strap doesn't break free? has anyone here ever heard anything so absurd?

i'd probably be angrier if i thought that simoncelli would have lived if his helmet stayed on, i'm pretty sure he was dead on impact, but give me a freaking break. i will NEVER buy an agv helmet and i am now asking for barf's opinion on this.

i really did ask a few times, "are you sure? this was part of the design? you're not kidding me?"

again, sorry if this has been posted, but i haven't seen this topic nor have i ever heard of anything so insane in my life.

jesus.

 

[Parx400]

If I had to guess I would say it would be better for the strap to break at some point if enough force is applied in that direction than for your head to be ripped off your shoulders. Should that amount of force be applied to the helmet, you have zero chance of living if you head is ripped off. You have maybe a slight change if the strap breaks. More likely you are dead in either way. I wonder what Bruce Porter would say about the strap.

 

[sf250gto]

In the January issue of Roadracing World, Mat Oxley says, "AGV officials say his helmet came off because the helmet strap is designed to detach in extreme impacts to avoid decapitation."

I have never heard that before, but it seems to make some sense.

 

[Johndicezx9]

Marco's helmet did what it was supposed to do.

That being said, if you meet the impact forces that are going to tear the strap from the helmet, the helmet is not going to be of much help to you.

 

[JPK]

i will NEVER buy an agv helmet and i am now asking for barf's opinion on this.

I'm fairly sure that this wasn't an arbitrary decision by AGV as they were sitting around drinking espressos one morning. A fair bit of engineering and analysis has surely gone into this decision, and I would trust that analysis over my own beliefs and perceptions of what a helmet should do in the event of an extreme crash.

 

[limey]

The bottom of the helmet has a flat shape that can easily get caught on something, and that something can yank it up at tremendous force. You can almost say if the AGV helmet strap would have let go sooner it might have been better.

Of course, it has to be able to withstand a wind gust hitting it and providing pretty a good force too, so like a ski binding it is a compromise between trying to let go when it is doing harm, but never releasing when it should not.

I am not sure why you would fail to buy an AGV helmet again. A stronger strap would not have been more beneficial to our beloved Marco.

 

[DucatiHoney]

It's sort of a damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't scenario. We'd be having a very similar conversation if Marco's head had come off during the incident, but we'd arguing the other side. I'm sure AGV evaluated the comparative advantages and issues of allowing the helmet to release versus having it stay on no matter what. They apparently decided that allowing it to release was safer. Or maybe it was dictated by the lawyers or insurance or something.

Knowing what prompted their decision-making would be highly useful here. What would also be good is know the force at which the helmet releases. I'm guessing it wasn't arbitrary, but who got the final say on the exact number and what was the statistical research that pointed to X?

 

[sebastacruz]

Would you have preferred a decapitation? They break for a reason.

 

[xgambit]

how dare AGV not design a helmet and helmet strap that can withstand getting hit by a motogp bike! :rolleyes

 

[Ookie007]

Given how often Simoncelli and Rossi have crashed in their respective pasts, i'm pretty sure AGV's hold up quite well. Simoncelli's accident was a tragic fluke that involved being hit in the back at full speed by multiple bikes. The helmet letting go at that point was the least of his problems. So, in the words of the cab driver from Old School, "I recommend you stop being such a faggot" and think a little harder before running to BARF with your stunning safety revelations.

 

[Marcoose]

I too would prefer to have the straps break if the alternative is certain death by decapitation or strangling.

 

[n10sive]

there's a certain point in which the force of the brain hitting the inside of the skull, or the force required to separate the spine from the brain stem, that makes discussions on chin straps irrelevant.

 

[DucatiHoney]

Given how often Simoncelli and Rossi have crashed in their respective pasts, i'm pretty sure AGV's hold up quite well. Simoncelli's accident was a tragic fluke that involved being hit in the back at full speed by multiple bikes. The helmet letting go at that point was the least of his problems. So, in the words of the cab driver from Old School, "I recommend you stop being such a faggot" and think a little harder before running to BARF with your stunning safety revelations.

It's a valid question. Very few things in life are absolute and there's probably disagreement on how to handle a crash incident even among helmet manufacturers, let alone helmet users. "Can we do X better?" is often progress is made, and your response to the OP merely demonstrates your lack of forward thinking and myopic approach to the situation. If you don't care to participate in the debate because your mind is made up, that's fine, but tossing out a sideways insult isn't necessary.

 

[shoelace]

I don't think that my arai or my shoei straps are designed to detach. I could be wrong, but I've never heard of this before.

 

[Spec-ECU]

Maybe because it's not exactly a marketing feature of any of today's helmet makers. As pointed out many times, you probably have bigger problems if you are put in a situation that determines whether your chin strap will withstand such a compromising impact or not.

 

[Ookie007]

It's a valid question. Very few things in life are absolute and there's probably disagreement on how to handle a crash incident even among helmet manufacturers, let alone helmet users. "Can we do X better?" is often progress is made, and your response to the OP merely demonstrates your lack of forward thinking and myopic approach to the situation. If you don't care to participate in the debate because your mind is made up, that's fine, but tossing out a sideways insult isn't necessary.

Yes as we're all chemical engineers with backgrounds in plastics this thread will greatly help me in my cause to "Make X better." I also was not aware that stating what happend was some how a representation of a "lack of forward thinking and myopic approach" of my own cognitive abilities, but I like to just make shit up and use big words too, so I guess i understand.

As stated numerously by both myself and others in several of these threads, Simoncelli died in a tragic accident that had more to do with with the impacting of bikes themselves at such a speed as to cause fatal neck and chest injuries. Tomizawa and Jones were both killed in a similiar enough fashion and in both of their cases there was no helmet failure, and had Simoncelli's helmet failed or even been remotely suspected of failing it would've been all over the wire like flies on shit.

This is a moot topic in a boring thread that is days late and many dollars short and does nothing to contribute to any sort of "forward thinking" of how safety plays in to riding at the elite level, and really contributes nothing at all. Next time, I guess i'll just spare everyone and tell them to lurk more, my apologies.

 

[Marcoose]

Barely one page and it's already time for opcorn

 

[ALANRIDER7]

A basal skull fracture is a nasty thing.

Any type of strap has a yield limit. It will break eventually if enough force is applied. That's still better than having your head removed. Simo was gone even if his helmet had stayed on. RIP.

 

[ThermalStone]

Seeing a rider killed due to head injury as his helmet bounces down the track is not great advertising. I don't know yet what caused Marco's death or if the helmet worked properly or failed, but I'm not inclined to buy an AGV anytime soon.

 

[limey]

:facepalm