Selling old car .. smog or not ?

[phocup]

So I have an old Miata that I want to sell to reclaim driveway space. Car runs fine but have not been driven for a long time so registration is expired and I have no current insurance for it.

Reading online DMV requires recent ( 90 day ) smog cert from seller. So to do it 'right', means paying $155 for reg renew + $50 ( guesstimate ) for a month of insurance to take the car to get smogged. About $250 cost in all. The bulk of it is 'wasted' in the form of an annual registration when buyer will have to pay again to register.

The slightly cheaper option would be to tow it to the smog station ( $50-100 ? ) but if any unexpected issues arise, that tow money is definitely wasted as well.

'Free' but riskier options is (1) to put in contract smog responsibility of buyer ( as many other ads states ) but seems like that won't hold up in court if it goes that far OR (2) sell as a 'parts car' which I believes absolves me of smog requirement but I might take a hit on the sell price with this.

It's an inexpensive car ( $2k ) so I would like to avoid spending 1/8 of the cost of the car simply to sell it if possible. When I bought the car I had no smog paper from previous seller and AAA gave me no hassle to transfer the title which make me wonder how strictly DMV enforce this smog rule.

Just curious what other barfer's experience has been buying / selling old cheap beaters in CA. Smog cert always required ? Just tow to one of those 'no pass no pay' station ?

 

[72SBC]

moving permit, smog, done.

 

[phocup]

Hmm .. interesting option.

Would I be able to get insurance for an unregistered car for that day / trip or does most just drive uninsured on these moving permits ?

 

[antidote]

Just don't crash into anyone. I'd think your normal insurance would cover you...call them to add a car for a day only? I can't imagine there being a smog station not within three miles of anyone's house..

I don't know about parts car. Probably need a dismantler license to do that legally. So doubt that's a loophole.

Also, literally illegal to say buyer's responsibility.



What are the Miata's details? Might be interested parties here.

Also. The seller could have smogged within 90 days. It is sent electronically to DMV. So you wouldn't have had a physical certificate. And AAA/DMV would have seen that in database and not asked you for one. They are 100% on getting it smogged to register on sales. Literally they will not allow you to register. Transfer, yes, but registration can only be postponed a limited amount of time before they say no more. DMV don't fuck around, bro.

 

[radvas]

The bulk of it is 'wasted' in the form of an annual registration when buyer will have to pay again to register.

The buyer won't have to pay registration fees again. Buyer will pay a title transfer fee an sales tax regardless of what you do. Someone will have to pay the reg fees, but not both of you.

 

[Junkie]

You don't need the smog paper, they have electronic records.

If you pay for the registration, they don't have to. It isn't wasted.

If you don't want to smog it I believe a Title Only Transfer is your only option.

 

[phocup]

What are the Miata's details? Might be interested parties here.

It's a silver 91 with 87k miles. No A/C or stereo or power steering. Mechanically sound though. Due to the low miles I was originally going to use it as a donor for my Exocet but found a much cheaper junk yard donor instead.

The buyer won't have to pay registration fees again. Buyer will pay a title transfer fee an sales tax regardless of what you do. Someone will have to pay the reg fees, but not both of you.

If you pay for the registration, they don't have to. It isn't wasted.

Good to know. I guess I misunderstood this part of the process. Might be worth it to get the tags up to date then to add value to the sale. Glad I asked. Thanks.

 

[russ69]

Don't do anything now. Work out the details with the buyer. The new buyer might just be looking for a track day car or a parts car, you never know.

 

[zphreak]

Smog it. No matter the "agreement" (unless sold as salvaged) it is the seller's responsibility to provide smog. If you don't, the buyer can come back requesting you cover the cost of repairs to pass smog.

 

[Yakoo752]

Smog it. No matter the "agreement" (unless sold as salvaged) it is the seller's responsibility to provide smog. If you don't, the buyer can come back requesting you cover the cost of repairs to pass smog.

this

 

[mercurial]

This is always an issue where you get lots of opinions on what the law is and what it requires you to do, but no one really cites the actual vehicle code that applies.

It is my opinion after reading the codes that you can structure a contract that allows you to sell the car as-is. basically the contract would essentially state as follows:

1. Buyer agrees to buy the car for $X.
2. Buyer agrees to transport car to the smog shop.
3. Seller agrees to pay for the smog certification fee.
4. If the car does not pass the smog check, or buyer is otherwise unable to
transport car to smog shop, Buyer agrees to buy the car, on a parts-only basis, for $Y, to be dismantled.
5. if any contract term is found to be unlawful, the rest of the contract shall remain in effect as if the offending term was omitted.

Buyer doesn't need to be a licensed dismantler to dismantle a car.

 

[Yakoo752]

This is always an issue where you get lots of opinions on what the law is and what it requires you to do, but no one really cites the actual vehicle code that applies.

It is my opinion after reading the codes that you can structure a contract that allows you to sell the car as-is. basically the contract would essentially state as follows:

1. Buyer agrees to buy the car for $X.
2. Buyer agrees to transport car to the smog shop.
3. Seller agrees to pay for the smog certification fee.
4. If the car does not pass the smog check, or buyer is otherwise unable to
transport car to smog shop, Buyer agrees to buy the car, on a parts-only basis, for $Y, to be dismantled.
5. if any contract term is found to be unlawful, the rest of the contract shall remain in effect as if the offending term was omitted.

Buyer doesn't need to be a licensed dismantler to dismantle a car.

I do not know what you are reading but 24007 clearly states the 2 options in which you can sell without a smog.

Except as provided in Section 24007.5, no person shall sell, or offer or deliver for sale, to the ultimate purchaser, or to any subsequent purchaser a new or used motor vehicle, as those terms are defined in Chapter 2 (commencing with Section 39010) of Part 1 of Division 26 of the Health and Safety Code, subject to Part 5 (commencing with Section 43000) of that Division 26 which is not in compliance with that part and the rules and regulations of the State Air Resources Board, unless the vehicle is sold to a dealer or sold for the purpose of being legally wrecked or dismantled.

I've personally sold vehicles without a smog and I've bought vehicles without a current smog. The seller is always taking a risk that in the case it fails, they can be liable for the repair costs.

 

[mercurial]

What exactly is unclear about what I posted? And how is it incompatible with the code you just posted?

If clause 1 is found invalid (e.g, the car doesn't pass smog) then clause 4 is triggered. clause 5 states all clauses shall remain in effect, to the extent permissible by law, if any clause is found unlawful.

 

[Yakoo752]

What exactly is unclear about what I posted? And how is it incompatible with the code you just posted?

If clause 1 is found invalid (e.g, the car doesn't pass smog) then clause 4 is triggered. clause 5 states all clauses shall remain in effect, to the extent permissible by law, if any clause is found unlawful.

I didn't catch your last statement

Buyer doesn't need to be a licensed dismantler to dismantle a car.

I did not know that.

but then after more looking in 24007 I see this

"No dealer or person holding a retail seller s permit shall sell a new or used vehicle that is not in compliance with this code and departmental regulations adopted pursuant to this code, unless the vehicle is sold to another dealer, sold for the purpose of being legally wrecked or dismantled, or sold exclusively for off-highway use."

so there is this which was updated, it appears, in 2016 - so it looks like you can sell a car with the intention that it not be registered for street use. This was always a grey area. When I sold my sand buggy in SD years ago, we had to jump through many hoops to ensure that stupid smog wouldn't bite me. This was all guidance from the DM,V, I don't expect a clerk to be a legal entity but I tend to listen to them as they are gate keepers.

 

[Junkie]

Smog it. No matter the "agreement" (unless sold as salvaged) it is the seller's responsibility to provide smog. If you don't, the buyer can come back requesting you cover the cost of repairs to pass smog.

Salvaged has nothing to do with it.

 

[mercurial]

CVC 5500 states duties the buyer would have as a non-licensed dismantler (buyer would have to surrender plates/title to DMV.) It therefore follows that you can dismantle a single vehicle as a hobbyist/lay-person otherwise they would not iterate such duties.

It's nice that they added the "off-highway" language to help regular people understand intent and purpose. But you could always accomplish the same thing with the dismantlement language.

 

[Cookie Monster]

It's a silver 91 with 87k miles. No A/C or stereo or power steering. Mechanically sound though. Due to the low miles I was originally going to use it as a donor for my Exocet but found a much cheaper junk yard donor instead.





Good to know. I guess I misunderstood this part of the process. Might be worth it to get the tags up to date then to add value to the sale. Glad I asked. Thanks.

I know this doesn't help at all but long nose or short nose crank?

 

[phocup]

VIN # last 6 is 212115 so that would indicate its one of the first long noses according to this link ( https://www.miata.net/garage/crankshaft.html ).

1991 with VIN 209446 or less, you have a crankshaft with a smaller diameter nose

I can take some pictures later today if you're interested.

 

[Sharky]

What exactly is unclear about what I posted? And how is it incompatible with the code you just posted?

If clause 1 is found invalid (e.g, the car doesn't pass smog) then clause 4 is triggered. clause 5 states all clauses shall remain in effect, to the extent permissible by law, if any clause is found unlawful.

Interesting approach, but for $250, I'd go with the accepted approach just to minimize headaches in the future.

 

[JesasaurusRex]

The 90 day smog thing is such a fuckin money grab. I wouldnt bother smogging it. Assuming it passes the buyer will more than likely eat the cost when attempting to register. If you get a phone call tell them you'll gladly reimburse them for the smog and write them a check with a "for vehicle smog, miata" or something of that nature. Probably won't get to that point, as long as it passes. If it fails, give them their money back or pay to have it fixed at a place of your choosing. If you know it will fail, disclose it and write up a bill of sale "for off road use only " and get them to sign it.

I see no point in spending the money up front unless you think it's hindering your sale. Nobody goes to jail for selling a vehicle without a smog, hsppens everyday.