SARS-CoV-2 Vaccine Trials

Dr_SLO

Well-known member
This is a place to post about vaccine trials. There will be a lot of information emerging very quickly as the numerous investigators start to publish their findings.

Some very recent data from a vaccine trial performed by Sinovac Biotech in monkeys has given some good indications that a traditional inactivated vaccine approach could work. These types of vaccine are easy to scale up with traditional vaccine manufacturing practices. The study data can be found here on bioRxiv. This is a preprint server and has not been peer reviewed so caution should be take interpreting the findings.
 

DucatiHoney

Administrator
Staff member
Do you have any insight as to how this vaccine, once ready, will be presented from a public health standpoint: mandatory or voluntary?
 

Dr_SLO

Well-known member
Do you have any insight as to how this vaccine, once ready, will be presented from a public health standpoint: mandatory or voluntary?

I don't have an answer for that. I can envisage that there might be proposals for mandatory vaccination for people who need to work in close quarters with others or with the general populous. However, with the current anti-vaccine rhetoric I can see a lot of pushback for mandatory vaccination. Why would a mandatory route be needed? Because people will refuse to take the vaccine for a multitude of reasons, most of which will be based on prevalent disinformation.
 

bojangle

FN # 40
Staff member
Do you have any insight as to how this vaccine, once ready, will be presented from a public health standpoint: mandatory or voluntary?

Do we really have any mandatory vaccines in this country? Not that I'm aware of. This vaccine will probably be rolled out like all the others. Voluntary and strongly recommended. Routine, but not mandatory for babies/young children. Mandatory for public school admission without a medical exemption (this might depend on the state). It might also be mandatory with certain employers and mandatory to travel to certain countries, including foreigners traveling to the US. I also think enough people will voluntarily take it and have their kids take it that we'll get herd immunity without forcing the anti-vax people to do the same. :2cents
 

Dr_SLO

Well-known member
Do we really have any mandatory vaccines in this country? Not that I'm aware of. This vaccine will probably be rolled out like all the others. Voluntary and strongly recommended. Routine, but not mandatory for babies/young children. Mandatory for public school admission without a medical exemption (this might depend on the state). It might also be mandatory with certain employers and mandatory to travel to certain countries, including foreigners traveling to the US. I also think enough people will voluntarily take it and have their kids take it that we'll get herd immunity without forcing the anti-vax people to do the same. :2cents

For SARS-CoV-2 I agree that there should be enough coverage without mandatory vaccination if the vaccine has a high efficacy.
 

budman

General Menace
Staff member
Required for children yes... if they go to public school anyway. Not sure that fits your definition

But under the law, 10 actually. “– diphtheria, Haemophilus influenzae Type B (bacterial meningitis), measles, mumps, pertussis (whooping cough), polio, rubella, tetanus, hepatitis B and chicken pox”

And yeah.... I looked it up. :laughing
 
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rodr

Well-known member
What I want to know is, what are the chances of at least one vaccine being successful?

We don't have one for the common cold yet....
 

Dr_SLO

Well-known member
What I want to know is, what are the chances of at least one vaccine being successful?

We don't have one for the common cold yet....

From a couple of studies in non-human primates there appears to be protective immunity. The Sinovec vaccine trial in the OP demonstrates that a classic vaccine approach, an inactivated SARS-CoV-2, which is a similar to the original polio vaccine, does provide protective immunity. Even if the immunity only lasts for 6-12 months this will be enough to bring the R (reproductive index of SARS-CoV-2) value to below 1, which is needed to prevent community transmission. There are many new vaccine approaches being tested but my money is on the traditional approach because it's easy to scale up with existing manufacturing capabilities.

It's true that vaccines for the common cold don't yet exist and that coronaviruses cause colds. There are 4. There are also picornaviruses, adenoviruses and paramyxoviruses, making potentially hundreds more viruses. It's challenging to make a common cold vaccine due to the large number of different types of viruses. However, attempts do continue.
 

rodr

Well-known member
Thank you for this. Clearly the implications of vaccine success are huge.

Once we're out of the woods with this thing, we can get back to destroying the planet by burning fossil fuels. :laughing :cry
 

Climber

Well-known member
From a couple of studies in non-human primates there appears to be protective immunity. The Sinovec vaccine trial in the OP demonstrates that a classic vaccine approach, an inactivated SARS-CoV-2, which is a similar to the original polio vaccine, does provide protective immunity. Even if the immunity only lasts for 6-12 months this will be enough to bring the R (reproductive index of SARS-CoV-2) value to below 1, which is needed to prevent community transmission. There are many new vaccine approaches being tested but my money is on the traditional approach because it's easy to scale up with existing manufacturing capabilities.

It's true that vaccines for the common cold don't yet exist and that coronaviruses cause colds. There are 4. There are also picornaviruses, adenoviruses and paramyxoviruses, making potentially hundreds more viruses. It's challenging to make a common cold vaccine due to the large number of different types of viruses. However, attempts do continue.
That's the question. If people are getting re-infected, as suspected, after being infected just a month or two earlier, would these vaccines protect people for even 6 months?

Is there a vaccine type that would have a longer impact if the re-infection issue is a thing?
 

Dr_SLO

Well-known member
That's the question. If people are getting re-infected, as suspected, after being infected just a month or two earlier, would these vaccines protect people for even 6 months?

Is there a vaccine type that would have a longer impact if the re-infection issue is a thing?

At this point in time there's no evidence for reinfection. All the data that I'm aware of are based on the RT-PCR testing results of people 2-4 weeks after recovery. RT-PCR does not test for replicating virus only the nucleic acid genome, RNA, of the virus. Remnants of the RNA can remain in the body for a good period of time after infection as been resolved. As the number of copies start to wane it becomes more difficult to detect by RT-PCR. RT-PCR is not a 'yes' or 'no' test. It works on a logarithmic scale but it is used in diagnosis as 'yes' or 'no' in the clinical setting. You can have a positive test with 1 billion copies or 1 copy for the viral genome. So, as you get toward the limits of detection and into the convalescent stage it will be possible to have both positive and negative tests for a few weeks after infection. Reinfection within a month also doesn't fit with how immunity develops to other coronaviruses, including SARS and MERS. To recover from infection immunity is required. Without it people would turn to goo. Immunity develops to SARS-CoV-2 but will probably last for 6-12 months.

Vaccines are designed to really kick the immune system into action. A basic inactivated vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 will likely protect for 6-12 months but a more advanced vaccine could be designed to last a lot longer. A good example of this is a comparison to Zostervax and Shingrix, the two vaccines used to reduce the occurrence of shingles. Zostervax is an attenuated vaccine based on the varicella-zoster virus and has about 50% efficacy. Shingrix is a subunit vaccine using a single protein from the varicella-zoster virus that is combined with an aggressive adjuvant; adjuvants are used to kick the immune system into action. Shingrix is a more advanced type of vaccine and has an efficacy of 95%. All of these approaches will likely be investigated for SARS-CoV-2.
 

Snaggy

Well-known member
At this point in time there's no evidence for reinfection. All the data that I'm aware of are based on the RT-PCR testing results of people 2-4 weeks after recovery. RT-PCR does not test for replicating virus only the nucleic acid genome, RNA, of the virus. Remnants of the RNA can remain in the body for a good period of time after infection as been resolved. As the number of copies start to wane it becomes more difficult to detect by RT-PCR. RT-PCR is not a 'yes' or 'no' test. It works on a logarithmic scale but it is used in diagnosis as 'yes' or 'no' in the clinical setting. You can have a positive test with 1 billion copies or 1 copy for the viral genome. So, as you get toward the limits of detection and into the convalescent stage it will be possible to have both positive and negative tests for a few weeks after infection. Reinfection within a month also doesn't fit with how immunity develops to other coronaviruses, including SARS and MERS. To recover from infection immunity is required. Without it people would turn to goo. Immunity develops to SARS-CoV-2 but will probably last for 6-12 months.

Vaccines are designed to really kick the immune system into action. A basic inactivated vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 will likely protect for 6-12 months but a more advanced vaccine could be designed to last a lot longer. A good example of this is a comparison to Zostervax and Shingrix, the two vaccines used to reduce the occurrence of shingles. Zostervax is an attenuated vaccine based on the varicella-zoster virus and has about 50% efficacy. Shingrix is a subunit vaccine using a single protein from the varicella-zoster virus that is combined with an aggressive adjuvant; adjuvants are used to kick the immune system into action. Shingrix is a more advanced type of vaccine and has an efficacy of 95%. All of these approaches will likely be investigated for SARS-CoV-2.


Doc, do Coronaviruses have any dirty tricks like having their infectious properties enhanced by antibodies? Are subunit vaccines more successful because they elicit only a single antibody clone, perhaps not evoking the particular paratope a virus would utilize to defeat the immune system?
 

Dr_SLO

Well-known member
Doc, do Coronaviruses have any dirty tricks like having their infectious properties enhanced by antibodies? Are subunit vaccines more successful because they elicit only a single antibody clone, perhaps not evoking the particular paratope a virus would utilize to defeat the immune system?

My coronavirus immunology is not strong but from what I've gleaned from listening to the TWiV and Immune podcasts is that they don't currently mimic other viruses that can enhance disease through antibodies. The classic example of antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE) of disease is found in dengue virus infections. Dengue viruses have four distinct serotypes. Serotypes are defined as viruses that do not induce a neutralizing immunity to other viruses of the same family. Typically when an individual is infected with one serotype of dengue virus they won't show signs of severe disease. If that same individual is infected with a second serotype they have an increased chance of hemorrhagic fever. The mechanism that has been proposed behind ADE is that antibodies produced during recovery in response to the first serotype cross-react with the second serotype once it enters the body. Unfortunately, the cross-reactive antibodies can't neutralize the second serotype but some bind to the virus particles, which are then taken up by cells more easily, increasing the vial load of infection and the bodies response to fight off the virus. This is thought to lead to the hemorrhagic fever.

ADE does not seem to be a contributing factor to COVID. So far SARS-CoV-2 is only a single serotype and due to it's low mutation rate is very likely to remain so, making neutralizing antibodies effective against the virus rather tha enhancing virus uptake. The other piece of evidence that doesn't support ADE for SARS-CoV-2 is that convalescent sera is effective at treating COVID patients. Whether antibodies to other coronaviruses could cause ADE is still an open question as far as I know but if I recall they're further removed from each other antigenically than the serotypes of dengue viruses.

Having said that, an article in PNAS, Avoiding pitfalls in the pursuit of a COVID-19 vaccine, discusses ADE and also cell mediated enhancement of disease in vaccine development. The vaccine development is going to require carefully controlled trials to ensure safety.

Subunit vaccines are typically not the best approach for viral infections. As far as I know there are only three available; these prevent hepatitis B, HPV infection and shingles. HBV and HPV are very basic vaccines that just seem to work. The shingles vaccine is to a glycoprotein, gE, of varicella-zoster virus (VZV). It's not clear how this vaccine works but gE is very import for the replication cycle of VZV. It is produced on the cell surface during infection and it's likely that both and antibody-mediated and T-cell-mediated immune responses are induced that makes the vaccine effective. The skew in the type of antibody and T-cell response might be key, which is very likely down to the adjuvate used. As I mentioned before, the adjuvant is very aggressive and it does cause significant inflammation at the injection site, which is a good indicator of an immune response. A small price to pay given the vaccine's efficacy and the potential severity of shingles.

I'm of the opinion that SARS-CoV-2 does not need an advanced vaccine approach for the immediate future. It just needs to work well enough to get the R value below 1.
 

Snaggy

Well-known member
I'm of the opinion that SARS-CoV-2 does not need an advanced vaccine approach for the immediate future. It just needs to work well enough to get the R value below 1.

I hope that the vaccine confers protection for enough people to get a herd immunity. Maybe so, counting the previously infected.

BTW Thanks Doc. You're a gold mine. I think Herpes viruses are your field of interest. One of the most interesting, and probably misunderstood, parts of a daily practice. I have never heard a practitioner mention that lowly HHV6 had a latent syndrome for example. I hope you teach med students.
 

Snaggy

Well-known member
The other piece of evidence that doesn't support ADE for SARS-CoV-2 is that convalescent sera is effective at treating COVID patients. Whether antibodies to other coronaviruses could cause ADE is still an open question as far as I know but if I recall they're further removed from each other antigenically than the serotypes of dengue viruses.
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https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763982?guestAccessKey=1bf0335e-ec17-4e55-b93d-9d23cc5d6a52&utm_source=silverchair&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_alert-jama&utm_content=etoc&utm_term=042820

Some thoughts on Convalescent Plasma.

Edit: Sutter is offering plasma transfusion for patients enrolled in a Mayo Clinic Clinical Trial.
 
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Dr_SLO

Well-known member
BTW Thanks Doc. You're a gold mine. I think Herpes viruses are your field of interest. One of the most interesting, and probably misunderstood, parts of a daily practice. I have never heard a practitioner mention that lowly HHV6 had a latent syndrome for example. I hope you teach med students.

You're welcome and your posts have also been very informative from the clinical setting, which is most definitely not my area of expertise. Herpesviruses have been my field of interest for 15 years, specifically molecular pathogenesis and structural biology. Before that it was molecular epidemiology of noroviruses, a completely different kettle of fish. Herpesviruses are a truly fascinating group of viruses. Most people have at least 5 that are latent inside them. HHV6 is a fascinating virus as it can directly integrate into the telomeres of human chromosomes: Chromosomally integrated HHV-6: impact on virus, cell and organismal biology
 

Dr_SLO

Well-known member

Thanks for this. It really highlights the difficulty in assessing treatments in a controlled fashion during an active outbreak and the importance of carefully considered analysis in the absence of control groups. Convalescent sera has never really been more than a stop gap for more effective treatments. Fortunately it is a proven approach but the limitations must be recognized.
 

DucatiHoney

Administrator
Staff member

Do you think it's important (or pointless) to donate blood/plasma right now? I have A/B- blood, so my vampire food is real handy to have around a hospital usually. I don't know if the need is greater or lesser right now.
 
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