SAFELY Fast

[DataDan]

This post is prompted by (but otherwise unrelated to) a recent BARF thread about a high-speed mountain road crash. There are some important lessons there for n00bs (and not-so-n00bs) but they are more general than that specific incident, road, or rider, and they need to be addressed outside of that context.

I think it's important to talk candidly about speed. Regardless of what we might say publicly, we all wick it up to illegal levels occasionally. But some riders can do it without sacrificing a significant degree of safety, and that's the hard part. Any monkey can twist the throttle on a sportbike to make it go fast, and many do. Many also come home to Mom & Dad in a box. When we grizzled veterans deny that we speed, we miss a teachable moment. Prospective lawbreakers are left to learn everything we've learned from scratch--and to repeat the mistakes we've made.

Skill vs. Risk

A common misunderstanding among n00bs about speed has to do with skill and risk. On the street, the fastest rider isn't necessarily the one with the best skills. Often he's the one willing to take the most chances. If two riders reasonably close in ability are on the same road, the one who reaches the top of the hill first will be the one who has put himself in greater danger. In fact, a better rider--one with a shelf full of trophies to prove it--may fall behind because he'd rather take his chances with a gravel trap tomorrow than a guardrail today.

If you're unaware that risk trumps skill on the street, your competitive nature might cause you to take chances that, under different circumstances, you'd never even consider. Following your buddy over a nice bit of twisty pavement, he starts to pull away. You're not about to let that happen, so you pick it up a bit to keep him in sight. Maybe you feel completely confident at the elevated speed, and if so, that's fine. You're digging deeper into your reservoir of skill to maintain his pace. But maybe you don't feel so comfortable, and you begin to make mistakes that could turn out badly. Now you're keeping up not with skill but by increasing risk. At that point, if you want to get home safely, back off and let him go--even if it cuts the ego a bit. Never get into a risk-taking contest on a motorcycle. A rider who would play Russian roulette with two loaded chambers will beat a rider whose limit is one--though he has a much shorter life expectancy.

Choosing your risks

The risks we face on the street come in different forms. There's the risk that the next turn will be strewn with gravel just beyond your line of sight. There's the risk that the oncoming minivan driver isn't looking far enough ahead to figure out that your motorcycle--at 120mph--is going to interfere with his left turn. There's the risk that you won't judge your speed for the upcoming turn well and enter it too hot. These three examples comprise two very different categories of risk. The first two are unknown to you. You've never seen the turn before, and the driver is just a random figure behind the wheel of a random vehicle. But the last is something you have experience with. You've practiced judging turn-in speeds and making accurate steering inputs, so you have some idea how likely you are to make a mistake (and we all make them). It's the kind of risk you can estimate with a bit of confidence. Prefer risks that depend on your own skill. Avoid risks that depend on random events.

We take risks for the promise of a reward in the form of fun, but the risk/reward relationship can vary widely. Riding fast in traffic or into a blind turn carries high risk, but the payoff in fun may be no greater than riding at the same speed in a safer spot. Imagine that you're approaching a two-turn combination you've taken many times before, a blind right-hander followed by an open left-hander. The blind turn carries higher risk: there could be gravel on your line today, or an oncoming cage that blew the previous turn could be on your side of the road. Yet the knee-dragging fun is the same as for the open turn. So comparatively, the blind turn is a rip-off--too costly in risk--while the open turn is a bargain--same fun for less risk. Demand the most reward you can get for the risks you take, and if the price is too steep, take your business elsewhere. You won't have to ride very far to find a better deal.


Riding safely fast on the street is a highly brain-intensive activity; the size of your peaches has nothing to do with it. It requires constant assessment of sightlines, surface, distractions, and other environmental elements. But even more importantly, it requires continuous evaluation of your own performance. We all have good days and bad, good turns and bad. As an excellent essay (Degrees of Control) in Sport Rider magazine noted a couple of years ago, the best feedback we get is from ourselves.

 

[Enchanter]

Excellent post Dan. Thanks.

 

[nubcakes]

+1.5

Sicknasty postage.

 

[tzrider]

Really well put, Dan. I'd been wanting to post something in another thread vaguely along the same line, but this covered it better than I would have.

The thing that got me thinking about it, beyond recent circumstances, was a poster's comment about not riding "above xx%." We hear that phrase all the time and I always have problems with it, even though it's usually well intended.

First of all, what is this percentage a percentage of? Let's say I'm claiming to ride at 80%. Is that 80% of how fast I could ride? Is it 80% of the way to being freaked out? There doesn't seem to be consistent meaning.

Second, it isn't really measurable. How do you know the difference between 70% and 80%? You don't. It's a precise sounding way of describing something much more fuzzy.

Describing your pace as being 80% seems to be relative to the rider. As such, it doesn't fully take the environment into account. It may account for what the rider perceives about the road, but it doesn't account for random variables and the "dangerous corners" you describe. You can try to compensate by setting your "percentage" even lower, but again, it's hard to measure and you can eventually set the percentage so low the ride isn't that much fun.

Finally, to describe my pace as being a certain percentage of what I am capable of, is also to say, "I could be going much faster. I'm holding back. This is nothing. I'm really a much better rider than what you're seeing here." In a group setting, you can often see everyone's "80%" becoming faster and faster. I've thought more than once how remarkable is was that everybody's skill level improved so much in one day. In fact it normally hadn't and group riders just kept upping the ante on each other.

Your post describes instead an approach that takes the environment fully into account, not only the global conditions for the day, e.g., it's sunny and warm vs. cold and rainy, but certain turn configurations and the possibility of unseen hazards. The rider makes risk/reward decisions on a corner by corner basis, which, in my mind, is as it should be.

Of course we all do need to set an overall pace that does take our skill level into account. Rather than thinking in terms of riding at 80% (or whatever), I think in terms of riding a pace at which I'm 100% comfortable. I can relax on the bike, turn exactly where I mean to every time, not make errors on the throttle or brakes and can maintain a wide field of view. Conveniently, I can measure this, as I'm either succeeding at these things or I'm not. Then, within that envelope, I'll make corner by corner decisions based on sight lines and layout.

 

[dkcwenge]

i think there needs to be more emphasis on this kind of mindset in the riding community. well put... thanks for the post!

 

[Carlo]

i think there needs to be more emphasis on this kind of mindset in the riding community. well put... thanks for the post!

Nice one Dan.
I'm often left behind by a couple of my friends. I can see them doing things that will get them killed, and I just have to let them go.
One of these days....

Have you looked at my "crash survey" in the crash analysis board?
I'm finally putting together some statistics that could demonstrate to Julian Solos that it is possible to manage the risks of riding.
The one thing I brought out of that entire sorry episode (sorry that Julian was such a stubborn SOB that any dialogue quickly devolved to people calling him names) was my almost obsessive fascination with the subject of motorycycle safety and risk management.

 

[DataDan]

tzrider wrote: Your post describes instead an approach that takes the environment fully into account, not only the global conditions for the day, e.g., it's sunny and warm vs. cold and rainy, but certain turn configurations and the possibility of unseen hazards. The rider makes risk/reward decisions on a corner by corner basis, which, in my mind, is as it should be.

That was as lesson that took me a long time to figure out. I would go through a turn and realize that I wasn't using much of the motorcycle's capability--not taxing grip or lean angle. My first reaction was that it was a skill deficiency and there was something--I wasn't sure what--that I needed to improve. But eventually I figured out that I was slow in certain corners for good reason: the unknown.

When I finally understood that about myself--that I couldn't blindly throw the bike into a turn that might present a hazard I wouldn't be able to escape from--I was able to progress faster. Rather than worry about turns I couldn't attack, I focused on the ones I could. Applied to those turns, the lessons from the books and the track schools made sense.

 

[Jack the Smack]

You also must account the risk from how you maintain your bike. Proper maintenance of your bike reduces risk, while negligence increases risk. Spending 30 seconds making sure your turn signals and lights all work, and warming up your break pads a bit, could save your ass. Checking the tire pressure every week, or even every time you refill gas (it's free you know) will help. Even simply cleaning your bike so it shines and reflects more light will make it much more noticeable to other drivers.

 

[Andreas]

The blind turn carries higher risk: there could be gravel on your line today, or an oncoming cage that blew the previous turn could be on your side of the road. Yet the knee-dragging fun is the same as for the open turn. So comparatively, the blind turn is a rip-off--too costly in risk--while the open turn is a bargain--same fun for less risk. Demand the most reward you can get for the risks you take, and if the price is too steep, take your business elsewhere. You won't have to ride very far to find a better deal.

I love it....thank you! I will definitely keep this in mind:ride

 

[GAJ]

This can be applied to lane splitting/sharing.

Amazing how fast some riders think they can safely split through rolling traffic; a speed differential of 20mph does not seem at all safe to me, but is "no problem" for others.

I never try to "keep up" with those folks, not worth it.

 

[rider101]

You also must account the risk from how you maintain your bike. Proper maintenance of your bike reduces risk, while negligence increases risk. Spending 30 seconds making sure your turn signals and lights all work, and warming up your break pads a bit, could save your ass. Checking the tire pressure every week, or even every time you refill gas (it's free you know) will help. Even simply cleaning your bike so it shines and reflects more light will make it much more noticeable to other drivers.

YES, this would make the two of us :ride, on the same page, page 1 of a 1000-page book :rofl

 

[Khatsalano]

Great post. I want to add another cause of wanting to go fast. In my everyday life, I drive a Prius. I drive safe and within 5-10mph on top of the speed limit at most (it's a personal challenge to see the MPG's go up). As a car driver, I often expect riders to go faster than me. And usually that is true.

I've come across several scenarios on 84 or Skyline/35 where I'm on my bike, and I am enjoying the view of the woods and the fresh air at a pretty normal speed, similar to how fast I would go if I were driving my car. I notice that lots of cars expect me to go fast: (1) they slow down and try to get me to pass them even if I'm a good 3+ seconds behind them; (2) they encroach on my space behind me to let me know they want to go faster; (3) and sometimes at intersections they expect my speed to be faster so they anticipate leaving less time behind me before they make a move.

As a long-time car driver, and a relatively newer rider, I have to consciously remind myself, what would I do if I were in my car? The same thing. I would leave more space in front, let tailgaters pass, and slow down and be even more vigilant at intersections when I see suspect vehicle behavior. Just because I'm on my bike on any given day, doesn't mean I have to abide by what cars expect me to do-- to go faster.

I'm happy riding the same way I drive, and I don't need a 'cager' to make me behave irresponsibly just because I'm on two wheels that day.

- K

 

[louemc]

There is a very good article in the latest Motor Cyclist Done by Keith Code. Titled Fast Bikes Saves lives.

Of course it is in the perspective of a rider working at advanced skills first, and then the "fast bike" expanding the abilities to better deal with the hazards that pop up.

 

[DataDan]

Feanor started a thread about that article in General about a month ago: High horsepower bikes does not equal "more dangerous". Very interesting and provocative discussion.

 

[Cheyenne]

The thing that got me thinking about it, beyond recent circumstances, was a poster's comment about not riding "above xx%." We hear that phrase all the time and I always have problems with it, even though it's usually well intended.

First of all, what is this percentage a percentage of? Let's say I'm claiming to ride at 80%. Is that 80% of how fast I could ride? Is it 80% of the way to being freaked out? There doesn't seem to be consistent meaning.

Does anyone else feel this way?

I don't feel I have any issue knowing what % I'm at, or hitting a certain %.

I feel it is % of control ability you have over the machine, and I separate it from the % of the machine's ability that I am using at the time. For example, I usually use about 85% of my ability, while using 95-105% of my car's ability when commuting over 17 to work. The same route on the bike, with the same casual intent, would be 95% of my ability, and perhaps 80% of the bike...I'm not sure of the bike in that example, because I lack the skill to push it past 100%, which I determine to be when you can no longer use weight shifting, or other techniques to get more corner speed from the machine. You might get a percent or two more corner speed with different timing on weight transfer/turn in, but not much, basically the differences you see when two racers gain and lose on each other through a few corners or laps.

For the % of your own abilities, you just have to know yourself well, which I think means pushing yourself to your limits all the time. I'm used to doing this, so I'm comfortable with using %s, as I feel I can be consistent in applying them in practical situations, like trying to be fast on 17 in the rain in the RaceTaurus while it's got bald front tires. I set myself at 95% and the car at 101% (so I'm sliding the front a little through every corner) and if my effort level to keep that consistent goes up, then I know I've passed 95% and should ease back. At 85% or less I feel like I'm not paying attention in those conditions, but in the dry, I only use about 60% to push the car past 95%...the RaceTaurus is a sad excuse for a performance car

I find value in this only in keeping myself honest and clear about my own abilities and levels of comfort. I think it's something that is likely only useful if you are really pushing it all the time.

I would love to hear anyone else's experience with this!

 

[Dandelion]

Regardless of what we might say publicly, we all wick it up to illegal levels occasionally.

Yes I think we can all agree on this.

Skill vs. Risk
he'd rather take his chances with a gravel trap tomorrow than a guardrail today.

Absolutely, the track has had the effect of slowing me down on the street. I know I can get that fix of speed and adrenaline at the next trackday. I know looking for the limits of a situation on the street will kill me and possibly others.

Choosing your risks
Yet the knee-dragging fun is the same as for the open turn. So comparatively, the blind turn is a rip-off--too costly in risk--while the open turn is a bargain--same fun for less risk. Demand the most reward you can get for the risks you take, and if the price is too steep, take your business elsewhere. You won't have to ride very far to find a better deal.

Choose wisely! It's like calories, the doughnut at work may look good but I know I'm going out for a delicious dinner so I would rather eat my calories there.

 

[louemc]

Does anyone else feel this way?

I don't feel I have any issue knowing what % I'm at, or hitting a certain %.

I feel it is % of control ability you have over the machine, and I separate it from the % of the machine's ability that I am using at the time. For example, I usually use about 85% of my ability, while using 95-105% of my car's ability when commuting over 17 to work. The same route on the bike, with the same casual intent, would be 95% of my ability, and perhaps 80% of the bike...I'm not sure of the bike in that example, because I lack the skill to push it past 100%, which I determine to be when you can no longer use weight shifting, or other techniques to get more corner speed from the machine. You might get a percent or two more corner speed with different timing on weight transfer/turn in, but not much, basically the differences you see when two racers gain and lose on each other through a few corners or laps.

For the % of your own abilities, you just have to know yourself well, which I think means pushing yourself to your limits all the time. I'm used to doing this, so I'm comfortable with using %s, as I feel I can be consistent in applying them in practical situations, like trying to be fast on 17 in the rain in the RaceTaurus while it's got bald front tires. I set myself at 95% and the car at 101% (so I'm sliding the front a little through every corner) and if my effort level to keep that consistent goes up, then I know I've passed 95% and should ease back. At 85% or less I feel like I'm not paying attention in those conditions, but in the dry, I only use about 60% to push the car past 95%...the RaceTaurus is a sad excuse for a performance car

I find value in this only in keeping myself honest and clear about my own abilities and levels of comfort. I think it's something that is likely only useful if you are really pushing it all the time.

I would love to hear anyone else's experience with this!

When I hear the "ride at 80%" or whatever way it gets said, I just shrug, and put the one saying it, at the lower end of the credibility scale. Course what else they say and whatever it is, will be considered in how far down they get placed.

Thingy is.... the risk is always changing on the public road. A rider never knows just what the risk is, for instance if a car appears out of a blind corner, how fast the car is coming wasn't known until it is seen, and if it isn't staying on it's own side of the road isn't known until it is seen, and the closing speed..... can the rider change their line? In the time available? And far enough to stay in a safe space distance? How does the rider know they can?

If they don't know then they also don't know what % of cushion they have.

Do they know what is the exact limit of their tires on the surface at the moment? If they don't know then they also don't know the % of cushion they are in.

Saying 8/10ths, or 80% is just talkin out their ass :laughing But God bless, Humor has a value :laughing :laughing :laughing

If they would talk in terms of, "I've seen a lot, escaped some close calls, and based on what I've experienced, feel I'm doing all I can to stay out of trouble, and I'm working on doing better, so things are getting better" then that would be more like a truth. But..doesn't have the ring of "riding at 80%" so.....doesn't get said much.

My ZX-10 is the safest bike I've ever had. Because it does what I tell it to do, quicker, and more precisely, than any other bike I've had. :cool

 

[Cheyenne]

Do they know what is the exact limit of their tires on the surface at the moment? If they don't know then they also don't know the % of cushion they are in.

Feel. If you can't feel that, then you can't push the vehicle to it's limits.

You have a lot of leeway with surface. I pushed my front end in my car on almost every single corner on 17 the other day when it was wet. Sliding just a little bit on each one, before the apex, but after the turn in. No surprises, and most of the time when there are, it's possible to account for them.

Dealing with dangers such as blind driveways, blind corners, etc is a sightline and speed issue. The better I am at feeling the *exact* amount of control I have, the more I respect what stopping distance really means...which is why I drive more aggressively than 99% on 17, but leave more following distance than most :rolleyes

But at the end of the day, when someone does pull out in front of me, I can use ALL of my traction if I can feel it...otherwise I'm just guessing, or playing it safe...which means I have less stopping power.

Safely fast is combining these things...total control, with a sense of how fast really is too fast in terms of braking. Being able to be accurate and consistent with % numbers is just a game...when I'm doing it I go by feel.

I also made a game of counting hydroplaning moments driving through deep water where your tires come in and out of contact with the road surface several times per second. I can track 4 iterations of this per wheel at a time, or up to 6 on one wheel, but then I lose accurate count of the others, and am only aware that they are intermittent in general. Once again just a game, but it lets me know where the limits of my sensory abilities are.

I need to figure out how to hang all this together in a teaching technique and write a book. I would love to be able to teach people shortcuts to the things I took thousands of hours learning by myself.


Datadan, please tell me if I am not contributing appropriately in this forum, and I will shut up. I'm still not sure if I'm a genius or a moron with this stuff.

 

[GAJ]

Well, Cheyenne, if you're doing your little race track antics on the street in your car where a mistake by you won't end up with someone else's blood on the ground then have at it.

But it you're pushing your car limits where a slight error or surprise might lead you to crash into another vehicle or person, then cut it out.

Yeah, I've had my car out at Sears Point, taken open wheel courses from Bondurant, and four wheel drift my tiny sports car on back roads where there are clear sightlines and no traffic every great once in a while, but do not do such things very often as generally the safe conditions to do so don't exist that often.

Breaking tires loose even on an irregular basis in areas with traffic simply makes no sense, in a car or on a bike.

Doing it on a regular basis is a recipe for disaster IMO.

Have you taken your car or your butt to the track?

That might make you slow down on the street.

But maybe I misunderstood.

 

[DataDan]

Cheyenne wrote: Datadan, please tell me if I am not contributing appropriately in this forum, and I will shut up. I'm still not sure if I'm a genius or a moron with this stuff.

Your contributions are appropriate to the discussion. I don't agree with some of what you have to say, but that's just a difference of opinion.

I don't think you've countered the arguments Andy (tzrider) made against the use of percentages to quantify riding intensity. Briefly summarized, he said: 1) "% of what?"; 2) whatever it is really isn't measurable; 3) it doesn't take the environment into account; and 4) there's often a BS factor involved.

You say you're measuring against the limit of your own ability to control the vehicle (a car in your example), which answers #1. But I think anyone who rides a motorcycle seriously enough, often enough to understand limits would find the precision you apply to be less than realistic. Basically, you're in control until you aren't.

One point in the OP was that environment makes a big difference between safer speed and less safe speed, and Andy argues that the percentages people use don't take that into account. Claiming that you're exercising 80% of your ability to control the vehicle doesn't convey much information about your judgment when there's a 50% chance that a vehicle is moving slowly in your lane just around a blind turn. In situations like that the risk of a crash depends far more on unknown environmental factors than on your skill reserve.

As to the BS factor, there's a tendency for no one ever to claim that he's using 100% of his ability. After all, that would open him up to humiliation if someone else turns out to be faster. At 80%, with 20% in reserve, he can always say: "Well, I coulda gone faster, but these tires are getting old."

My only suggestion as to appropriateness would be to focus on motorcycles rather than cars. BARFers who ride 17 may find your antics in the Taurus objectionable.