Rules questions

[ILOAD2]

I'm reading the meeting notes.
Can someone clarify. .."moving formula 3 and 250 Superbike to legacy 250 lightweight "
"450 disabled machines legal for legacy light weight"

 

[synfinatic]

I'm going to guess the answer is: Legacy Lightweight != Legacy 250 Lightweight.


While we're talking about the 450 cripples I gotta wonder about 6.1.7(a) & 6.1.2(f):

"6.1.7 Disabled Cylinder Motorcycles
a) A Disabled Cylinder Motorcycle is a 600 Production or 600 Superbike motorcycle with a cylinder disabled to produce a 450 Production or 450 Superbike motorcycle."

"6.1.2 f) Disabled Cylinder Motorcycles (ref. 6.1.7) may run in the 450 Production, 450 Superbike, Formula AFemme, Formula IV, Formula 40 Light, and Legacy Light classes."


Based on the above, 450 cripples running under superbike rules (ie, high comp pistons, aftermarket cams, etc) are legal for 450Prod.

 

[ircsmith]

thought is was written so the "or" means one rule set or the other. so to build a 450 prod the prod rules apply "or" to build a 450SB the super bike rules can be utilized. I will have to read through it but I thought Dan's proposed rule was clear, but like I said I will have to read it again.

 

[ILOAD2]

Still waiting to hear a clarification/explanation on if Formula 3 and 250 Superbike have been Consolidated/Eliminated? The wording of the "rule" is a bit strange?

Not sure what the reasoning behind such a decision would be if you look at the revenue those Two classes brought to the Club in 2015

If someone from the board could chime in here with the Architect of this proposal was and their presentation had all officers voting yea.

 

[synfinatic]

Got me. I'd normally recommend emailing members of the BoD, but I did that 30min after the minutes were sent out on the 21st and still haven't heard back. Maybe everyone is still hungover from the party. :dunno

 

[easter bunny]

Based on the above, 450 cripples running under superbike rules (ie, high comp pistons, aftermarket cams, etc) are legal for 450Prod.

I'm new here, but the 450 rule just seems to indicate that a disabled cylinder motorcycle is legal for 450 instead of having a block specifically displacing 450cc. Class rules still apply. It just tells you which classes allow neutered bikes.

No idea on the 250.

 

[synfinatic]

I'm new here, but the 450 rule just seems to indicate that a disabled cylinder motorcycle is legal for 450 instead of having a block specifically displacing 450cc. Class rules still apply. It just tells you which classes allow neutered bikes.

Anything is possible. As Ian said, I don't think my interpretation was the intention of the rule change. However, as I learned from my experience on the Rules Committee a couple of years ago it doesn't matter what the intention was or even what was voted on, it matters what the rule book ends up saying.

 

[ILOAD2]

I went back and re-read the 2015 AFM Rule book....

It states that 250 Superbike and Formula III machines where "classified" as eligible to run in Legacy 250...

Now. Is the New rule that they will be moved up to Legacy Lightweight.

That is what this language signals to me now that I have re read it over and over and thought about what would make sense..

Can this be confirmed.

Legacy250 for 07 an older 250cc bikes only would make sense .These would be the eligible machines if I have the boards intentions correct-
250 Production, Super Dinosaur
(up to 250 cc), and Vintage.

 

[synfinatic]

So I just re-read the minutes and I can't find what you quoted in your original post. Instead I find:

"6.1.1 Legacy 250: Move F3 and 250 Superbike to Legacy Lightweight.
Berto moves to accept
Connie seconds
Yes: Berto Wooldridge, Connie Droogas, Sam Richards, Greg Olson, Paul Kieffer, Max Klein, Jay Kinberger, Lisa Kinberger, Kyle Schirrmacher
No: none
Motion Passes"

Seem's pretty clear cut to me? F3 & 250SB are now in Legacy LT instead of Legacy 250 LT.


As for the 450 cripples, assuming they're old enough, they'd be legal for Legacy LT like the SV's.

 

[ILOAD2]

So I just re-read the minutes and I can't find what you quoted in your original post. Instead I find:

"6.1.1 Legacy 250: Move F3 and 250 Superbike to Legacy Lightweight.
Berto moves to accept
Connie seconds
Yes: Berto Wooldridge, Connie Droogas, Sam Richards, Greg Olson, Paul Kieffer, Max Klein, Jay Kinberger, Lisa Kinberger, Kyle Schirrmacher
No: none
Motion Passes"

Seem's pretty clear cut to me? F3 & 250SB are now in Legacy LT instead of Legacy 250 LT.


As for the 450 cripples, assuming they're old enough, they'd be legal for Legacy LT like the SV's.

Aaron..Yes.Now that I have re read the words,it is as you say-clear cut. I had to defer to the 2015 description of the class make up to see that really the point is to bump machines to Lightweight where the really belong.

I am a bit slow

 

[duh_ave]

thought is was written so the "or" means one rule set or the other. so to build a 450 prod the prod rules apply "or" to build a 450SB the super bike rules can be utilized. I will have to read through it but I thought Dan's proposed rule was clear, but like I said I will have to read it again.

actually, its not so simple as it conflicts with rules already in place, that as far as I can tell, were not repealed

 

[MZarra]

Dan's rule change does clear things up as the other rule regarding the 450 triples was repealed.

The rules around triples really is just as simple as they sound:

600P + 6.1.7 = 450P
60SB + 6.1.7 = 450SB

It isn't any more complicated than that.

 

[duh_ave]

there was nothing to indicate the rules were repealed in the "minutes" that were posted.

two of the proposalsm were on point. the new "definition" is great if applied towards a class description, but not for a definition of a 3/4 600.

All that was done was to open the door for incredibly expensive superbikes, a point of the triple concepts introduction to not be a necessity to be competitive, and hence with this, the beginning of the end.
The percieved bar will always be whomever spends the most money. That's just the way it is.

 

[TWF]

All that was done was to open the door for incredibly expensive superbikes, a point of the triple concepts introduction to not be a necessity to be competitive, and hence with this, the beginning of the end.

Back to good old days :teeth

 

[micahpearlman]

"6.1.1 Legacy 250: Move F3 and 250 Superbike to Legacy Lightweight.
Berto moves to accept
Connie seconds
Yes: Berto Wooldridge, Connie Droogas, Sam Richards, Greg Olson, Paul Kieffer, Max Klein, Jay Kinberger, Lisa Kinberger, Kyle Schirrmacher
No: none
Motion Passes"

Why move those classes to "Legacy" which is 2007 or older when there are modern bikes eligible for those classes (KTM RC390)?

 

[synfinatic]

That's not what's happening. It's not killing F3/250SB, but moving those bikes which were also legal for 250 Legacy to Legacy LT.

Basically it's making 250 Legacy for the old pre-gen ninjas and aligning Legacy Lightweight more inline with Clubman/F40 LT.

 

[micahpearlman]

That's not what's happening. It's not killing F3/250SB, but moving those bikes which were also legal for 250 Legacy to Legacy LT.

Basically it's making 250 Legacy for the old pre-gen ninjas and aligning Legacy Lightweight more inline with Clubman/F40 LT.

So just to be absolutely clear the 2 classes: F3 and 250SB are *NOT* being eliminated?

 

[synfinatic]

So just to be absolutely clear the 2 classes: F3 and 250SB are *NOT* being eliminated?

Correct. Read section 6.1.1 of the rule book and it will make more sense.

 

[Jello_Biafra]

Aaron is correct.

 

[synfinatic]

Hey Kyle, do you have any info on my question regarding the 450cc cripples? (see the second post in this thread)