Riding with Traction Control

[ZCrow]

I have not ridden a bike with traction control but it will likely be a feature on my next ride. I was surprised by the riding technique advice in this article on Sport Rider (Riding With Traction Control) and was wondering if their take matches what others with experience with these systems do?

The thing I found surprise is my assumption would have been that if TC kicks in you would keep your throttle neutral or reduce slightly rather than the advice of adding a bit more throttle to keep some wheel spin. So is this to avoid a violent reacquiring of traction and a potential high-side?

Also the author suggests that a lot of riders are...

When riding with traction control, the temptation for many riders is to whack the throttle wide open at the apex of the turn and let the electronics take over from there.

Really? Is anyone really so foolish as to trust technology that much? That just seems crazy to me.

 

[Gawernator]

I ride with TC on the lowest setting, it rarely interferes anyways

 

[mrzuzzo]

My bike has over 160hp and traction control on one of the lower settings. I haven't changed my riding style to adapt for it. I've only had it engage a handful of times. I don't think it makes sense to try to fool the TC and adding wheelspin.

For me it is a safety feature and not a riding aid. I don't rely or depend on it for anything. When it engages, it means I probably messed up.

 

[afm199]

There are so many traction control modes, settings and brands that generalization is just that.

I have it on my GSXR1000 and it is dialed to the point it never engages. I rode a friend's R1M and felt it engage 2-3 times a lap at slower speeds. Go figure.

What Cory Call told me (he used to feel that electronics were a waste of time) is that properly set up, they are worth it. Properly set up is the key word. He works pretty much full time with a pro BMW mechanic at the track.

For the average rider, it's probably a a device that has limited utility. (Unless you just set it up to engage at very low settings, and then it's just to keep people from crashing due to ineptitude.)

 

[Entoptic]

I have TC on lvl 3 of 8. I was on the off ramp from 85s to 17n which is a nice sweeping turn. I was in the middle of it leaned over pretty hard. Back tire starts to go out, lowside about to happen and then TC kicks in as I'm working my magic trying to prevent the low side. Front tire pointed towards the direction I needed to go.

Worked great but it proceeded to grab with the rear and then the high side started. Luckily my right knee was tucked under the tank and that stopped me from being tossed. I would preferred to ride out the slide and use the front tire to jump me back up.

I'm 50/50 on TC

 

[ZCrow]

I have TC on lvl 3 of 8. I was on the off ramp from 85s to 17n which is a nice sweeping turn. I was in the middle of it leaned over pretty hard. Back tire starts to go out, lowside about to happen and then TC kicks in as I'm working my magic trying to prevent the low side. Front tire pointed towards the direction I needed to go.

Worked great but it proceeded to grab with the rear and then the high side started. Luckily my right knee was tucked under the tank and that stopped me from being tossed. I would preferred to ride out the slide and use the front tire to jump me back up.

I'm 50/50 on TC

When you say working your magic, what was your approach to throttle control once the TC kicked in? Neutral, remove or adding throttle? When you say 50/50 are feeling that you would have managed it better without the aid?

I am not expecting any rider aid to ride for me but this article did get me to thinking about how to interact with TC when it does kick in, etc. The thesis of the article seemed to be that TC was one the one rider aid that is very reliant on setup but also requires an adaption on riding technique which is not something I have heard said before.

 

[Smash Allen]

I have not ridden a bike with traction control but it will likely be a feature on my next ride. I was surprised by the riding technique advice in this article on Sport Rider (Riding With Traction Control) and was wondering if their take matches what others with experience with these systems do?

The thing I found surprise is my assumption would have been that if TC kicks in you would keep your throttle neutral or reduce slightly rather than the advice of adding a bit more throttle to keep some wheel spin. So is this to avoid a violent reacquiring of traction and a potential high-side?

Also the author suggests that a lot of riders are...



Really? Is anyone really so foolish as to trust technology that much? That just seems crazy to me.

If I understand the article correctly I agree with it, if you reduce throttle or go neutral at a slip event you are going to slow down and go off line.

You still have to be smooth with your inputs to be fast. Chopping the throttle at a slip event (which is the natural reaction, our wrists are the ultimate 'traction control') could very well unload your rear tire resulting in a lowside. Bikes with adjustable engine braking like BMW and Ducati and KTM can help but it shouldn't be a band-aid for poor throttle modulation.

It's fun to get a little heavy on the throttle after a turn and feel the rear squirm :thumbup look at 17s, I try to do it once a ride.


youtu.be/8NjWU4JphWk?t=17s

 

[Tally Whacker]

To answer a few of the OP's questions, I have done the "Whack the throttle at the apex" technique on the track, and yes, it does work. Does it work better than a more typical throttle technique? Not really in my case (An AMA Superbike 2010 BMW S1000RR). I was mainly experimenting, and it did the job with no drama.

On the street, if the TC is well set up you just don't notice the intervention, and the proper response is to keep doing what you were doing. Don't chop the throttle, or even roll off a little bit. Just let the bike's electronics do their job as you continue on your merry way.

 

[Aware]

The thing I found surprise is my assumption would have been that if TC kicks in you would keep your throttle neutral or reduce slightly rather than the advice of adding a bit more throttle to keep some wheel spin.

I read and re-read the article. I don't see anywhere that it says to add throttle if TC kicks in.

What it does say is:

The end goal is that, to take advantage of a system’s use of throttle position, you want to be able to “lead” the throttle just to the point there is some wheelspin and the system is intervening to control that wheelspin. So, for example, if 40 percent throttle causes the system to intervene at a certain point, you want to use 45 or 50 percent throttle but at the same time have some amount of wheelspin. This should be the case at every point on the exit of each corner, with the throttle rolled on at a rate to keep it just ahead of the system. In this manner, you can be sure the system is doing the work of managing wheelspin and traction, yet it is getting feedback via the throttle position to work at its optimum capability.

In other words, it is saying you should know and understand your level of traction and required throttle at any point, and have the throttle open just enough to be breaking traction, then continue to open it as your speed increased beyond the apex.

I read this whole paragraph in the context of the racetrack where you have the luxury of being able to explore the limits in a way that you wouldn't on the street.

Reiterating - the article doesn't say to open the throttle more if the traction control kicks in, however it does say that you should open the throttle to a point of balance just beyond where the rear is breaking traction, then allow the TC to give the best level of slip vs grip for maximum speed/acceleration.

 

[Tally Whacker]

So I want to add this:

Typically, when the rear wheel slips out, our normal reaction is to chop the throttle (This is non-TC thinking). This often suddenly reduces rear wheel spin, and the tire can hook up in an instant. This is what leads to highsides.

If you have TC and the rear wheel starts to spin a bit, the TC manages it and prevents it from stepping out to any great extent (BUT DOES NOT CHOP THE THROTTLE). If the TC works well, it only reduces the torque just a bit to get the wheel spin into a manageable range. Thus no instant hook up, and no threat of a high side.

 

[Entoptic]

When you say working your magic, what was your approach to throttle control once the TC kicked in? Neutral, remove or adding throttle? When you say 50/50 are feeling that you would have managed it better without the aid?

I am not expecting any rider aid to ride for me but this article did get me to thinking about how to interact with TC when it does kick in, etc. The thesis of the article seemed to be that TC was one the one rider aid that is very reliant on setup but also requires an adaption on riding technique which is not something I have heard said before.

Honestly it was happening so fast but I'm fairly certain I was neutral or chopped. . I'm not sure I would have saved the low side but I'm not certain. What was scary was the instant highside that occurred.

I don't think any throttle control would have helped me with TC coming on. It was shit or get off the pot time. The big issue I see is the instant grab and go when the TC actually makes the tire grab. It was abrupt and jarring.

 

[rider93]

TC can only control the rear wheel spin not the slide (the new R1 has slide control as well). If you slide and expect regular traction control to save your butt, not gonna happen.

I have TC on couple of my bikes. It has definitely helped in a few cases where there was unexpected stuff (we leaves, gravel) on the roads. Rather than panic & jab on the brakes or do anything silly, I kept the throttle rolled on and the bike pulled out without drama.

Whacking open the throttle, fulled leaned over at the apex.. As much as it sounds tempting, I don't have the guts to even try it.

I definitely think TC is a great tool.

 

[afm199]

I have TC on lvl 3 of 8. I was on the off ramp from 85s to 17n which is a nice sweeping turn. I was in the middle of it leaned over pretty hard. Back tire starts to go out, lowside about to happen and then TC kicks in as I'm working my magic trying to prevent the low side. Front tire pointed towards the direction I needed to go.

Worked great but it proceeded to grab with the rear and then the high side started. Luckily my right knee was tucked under the tank and that stopped me from being tossed. I would preferred to ride out the slide and use the front tire to jump me back up.

I'm 50/50 on TC

That particular incident was probably due to riding style and TC had nothing to do with it. Max lean in a corner is not a place where you go to throttle, particularly aggressively.

 

[afm199]

Look at MotoGP sometime. Watch the throttle hands. They have the best TC in the world. Not ONE of those guys "whacks" the throttle. They roll it on.

 

[stangmx13]

the article comes across as purely track focused. lets not forget that.

There are so many traction control modes, settings and brands that generalization is just that.

this

fly-by-wire, wheel speed sensors, an IMU, or a lack of any of those... TC has many many different implementations and each one probably has a diff effectiveness when it comes to managing traction and spin.

the worst implementations looks for spikes in rear wheel rpm without a front wheel speed sensor then reduce engine power using ignition timing. if u feel some spin and continue to add throttle with this system, u are still going to get more power and more spin. so its prob best to hold the throttle constant or reduce to maintenance throttle.

the best implementations have wheel speed sensors and an IMU to measure spin and riding conditions, then use fly-by-wire to dial back engine power. with this implementation, adding more throttle when spinning might not do anything. the TC might just hold the butterflies in a constant position until the spinning reduces, essentially ignoring your throttle tube input. "staying ahead of the system" is likely the fastest way around a track with this kinda of system.

IMO, most riders are going to have no clue what TC system they have and how well its implemented. suggesting that a rider "stay ahead of the system" just because they have TC is dangerous. id recommend the opposite for all street riders... if you feel spin, hold the throttle constant or reduce as necessary.

 

[afm199]

Agreed. The worst thing you can do is close the throttle fully.

 

[louemc]

I don't have it (and don't want it). I don't track race, I have to believe, that is a critical item.
Are you on a track or Not on a track.

I hope CornDog chimes in on this...His Dirt track racing, honed his "Traction Control" to the finest degree. That's where traction control is and should be. The rider, having it.

 

[Z3n]

Each system varies widely, as others have stated. TC is a tool in the rider's arsenal, like the correct tires for the conditions, adjusting suspension, or line choice. Know how to use the tools available to you if you want to be the best rider you can.

For me, the primary value in TC is the ability to repeatably discover the limits of traction with minimal risk of crashing. Most high performance TC systems will let you slightly pass the limits of traction before they rein you in, so you can still slide and point the bike off the corner but you don't have to worry about going huge and getting a massive highside. For street oriented systems, it's primarily there to save you in case you hit a patch of oil or otherwise rapidly spin up the rear tire, to reduce the rate at which that occurs and either fix the problem for you or give you the chance to react correctly. Know what sort of system you're buying into and treat it accordingly. After a few years of regular commuting on TC enabled bikes, I've gotten much much better at anticipating available traction thanks to being able to play with that limit regularly in broadly varied conditions.

 

[fubar929]

The thing I found surprise is my assumption would have been that if TC kicks in you would keep your throttle neutral or reduce slightly rather than the advice of adding a bit more throttle to keep some wheel spin. So is this to avoid a violent reacquiring of traction and a potential high-side?

Keep in mind that this article is focused on high-performance on-track riding, not street riding. The author answers your question at the start of the third paragraph: "The premise for a performance TC system is that a certain amount of wheelspin is desirable as it increases the traction properties of the tire."

Really? Is anyone really so foolish as to trust technology that much? That just seems crazy to me.

After 18 years of riding without traction control or ABS, I simply can't bring myself to slam on the brakes or whack the throttle open with the bike carrying significant amounts of lean. All my muscle memory is calibrated around being smooth with brakes and throttle! Hell, I have to think twice about stomping on an ABS-enabled rear brake when the bike is traveling in a straight line on an empty road. The results of that test, by the way, are illuminating in terms of just how much variation there is from bike to bike and even from setting to setting on the same bike.

Despite the fact that both of my current bikes have TC, ABS, wheelie control, etc. I still ride them like I have every other bike that I've owned. I treat TC and ABS as a safety net: if they trigger, it means I've gotten too greedy with the brakes or throttle. I've only managed to trigger TC once or twice on the street. In both cases, I rolled off the throttle slightly once I realized TC was cutting power to the rear wheel and was able to bring the bike under control smoothly. I would fully expect that chopping the throttle would lead to a high-side on a TC-equipped bike; once the rear wheel stops spinning, the TC system doesn't care what happens next...

 

[KnifeySpoony]

Look at MotoGP sometime. Watch the throttle hands. They have the best TC in the world. Not ONE of those guys "whacks" the throttle. They roll it on.

Well, maybe one...