Quality measuring tools for a home mechanic - affordable options?

OaklandF4i

OaklandF4i

Darwin's exception
With this Shelter in Place stuff, I seem to have more time to ponder my tool quiver. :laughing

I'm not a pro mechanic, know enough to know what I don't know, don't have the ability to do, and or the skill to complete. I.e when to go to a pro. Frankly, I think that's a lot of Barf members, especially the dirt folks.

That said, I do a few engine rebuilds each year. Its either my own or helping friends with theirs.

I know the real gap in my tools and skills is accurately measuring. With my cheaper tools and less than expert skills using them, I believe I can see if they are well within or well out of spec for some projects...nothing more. Not comfortable or believe the accuracy for some tasks..... will often just replace if in doubt or refer to a pro on certain measuring tasks.

So I'd like to expand my capability with some better tools. I know I could just go to someplace like Snap On or other known high quality manufacturer and buy new. But I'd easily spend $3-4k or more buying the tools that way. For myself, that's simply not financially feasible and assume for many hobbyist it isn't either.

Tools I use most in order are a caliper, feeler gauges, micrometer, dial gauge, and bore gauge.

So from the pro mechanics or machinists, I'd like feedback on each of these tools. What tools can you purchase from a budget friendly brand and what tools you simple have to go with a more high end. What are those brand suggestions. What tools can be or need to be calibrated for use like mine if I purchase used.

Caliper - probably the only tool I prefer to be digital as its used so often.

Feeler gauges - does brand matter or all pretty much accurate enough for valve adjustments and other tasks.

Micrometer - I have a chinese manual one. I can read manual non digital ones fine. Kinda prefer the asthetic of the old school, but really just interested in an affordable option that's known to be reliably accurate manual or digital. Do these need to be calibrated? I'm thinking of searching for used ones on ebay or other places.

Dial gauge - Again, I have a cheap chinese non digital one. I would think that due to the mechanical aspect of this too,l a used one probably isn't a good idea or not? Don't need digital, but not apposed to it either.

Bore gauge - I have a cheap HF sprung Telescopic gauge (is that the right name?.) I question both the accuracy and my skill using it. Would love dial gauge version for measuring cylinder bores more than anything. But maybe I just need a better quality T gauge, some practice, and a proper micrometer to use with it.

Appreciate thoughts, comments, and suggestions. Brands, tools that are more critical that others, types, or what can safely be purchased used.
 
WFO

WFO

When in doubt, gas it!
Find a good machinist. (You know some.) Borrow stuff until you find something you like and then... who knows? Gauge blocks are good for checking your stuff. You can torque the knob on a micrometer and get a bad reading. The ones that have ratchet stops are nice. I've got bore gauges and other micrometers that I never really use. Some I bought and some were given to me. Some are in nifty little wooden boxes with velvety liners. I use a digital caliper the most.
 
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stever

stever

Well-known member
Good vernier caliper

Got this digital Fowler Euro-Cal 4 from MSC Direct a few years ago on sale around $79. Global industrial is showing it at $65 now. Seen it as high as $180! It’s not Fowler’s top stuff but have used it 4-5 years and check periodically against my gage blocks and it’s accurate. In addition to metric and inch it also does fractions & that can be pretty useful around the shop. SPI dial bore gages are pretty reasonable also. I use Mitutoyo for dial test gages and my primary micrometer. Most of my stuff is digital cause old damn eyeballs.
 
kuksul08

kuksul08

Suh Dude
Caliper: Go with a mitutoyo 6" or 8" digital. You will not regret it. I have used some of the cheap HF versions and they work alright, but I've had two of them break, and they are just crappy feeling/not smooth.

Feeler gauges: Snap on brand feeler gauges are actually pretty affordable. Check them out.

Micrometer: Starrett, Mitutoyo. Find a 'digital analog' type with a number readout and analog scale. No batteries required.

Dial gauge: I have several cheap chinese ones and they actually work fine. There is a big range of quality among these. As long as it's smooth, these tools are only used as a reference (not absolute measurements) and the cheaper ones are fine.

Bore gauge: Check out Shars, they offer a 'premium' stainless steel t-gauge set which is supposed to be decent. On that note, Shars offers a lot of tools which are surprisingly good for the price. They import chinese stuff from various manufacturers.

Basically... if you're relying on something for an absolute measurement, go with a quality brand. If it's just a reference tool or something imprecise to begin with, the chinese stuff will work fine.
 
ST Guy

ST Guy

Well-known member
kuksul08 said:
Caliper: Go with a mitutoyo 6" or 8" digital. You will not regret it. I have used some of the cheap HF versions and they work alright, but I've had two of them break, and they are just crappy feeling/not smooth.

Feeler gauges: Snap on brand feeler gauges are actually pretty affordable. Check them out.

Micrometer: Starrett, Mitutoyo. Find a 'digital analog' type with a number readout and analog scale. No batteries required.

Dial gauge: I have several cheap chinese ones and they actually work fine. There is a big range of quality among these. As long as it's smooth, these tools are only used as a reference (not absolute measurements) and the cheaper ones are fine.

Bore gauge: Check out Shars, they offer a 'premium' stainless steel t-gauge set which is supposed to be decent. On that note, Shars offers a lot of tools which are surprisingly good for the price. They import chinese stuff from various manufacturers.

Basically... if you're relying on something for an absolute measurement, go with a quality brand. If it's just a reference tool or something imprecise to begin with, the chinese stuff will work fine.
Click to expand...

Excellent advice!
 
auntiebling

auntiebling

megalomaniacal troglodyte
Staff member
check ebay for used mitutoyo, starrett, and brown and sharp, and Aerospace, stuff

there are great deals to be had, especially on stuff that doesn't need a battery. everybody wants batteries but analog will work just fine and the batteries never go dead. the caveat is that repariing them is never cost effective (unless you can DIY, and you likely can't because they're kinda fiddly) so if someone is selling "just needs to be serviced" metrology equipment i'd pass.

re: micrometer clutch. sure, use it to get familiar with stuff but it's a crutch and can still compress what you're measuring if it's really soft. if there are soft parts in your engine you have other problems but still... i prefer the slip collar style where the barrel you use to adjust the mic silps relative to the plunger shaft doing the measuring. it too is a crutch. the key to using a micrometer, and by extension a telescoping bore gage that needs a mic to get a number, is practice. find a few things that are of a known dimension (gage block as mentioned above if you have any, a bearing shaft, crank journal etc) and get the feel of things.

shars has impressed me as well. i have a few of their tools that get almost no use due to some Life Will Mess With You things but they're good enough for general use. i'd want to be able to check the accuracy if i was trusting them for anything like an engine rebuild though. Shars does have a "solvent proof" or something like that variant of calipers etc. which i wish my mitutoyo was before i leaked brake fluid all over it.... that's how i know they're cheaper to replace vs fix and it was a fairly current one at the time.
 
OaklandF4i

OaklandF4i

Darwin's exception
This is great stuff so far. Learning a lot, getting an idea of whats more important as well as the brands. It looks like I should be looking at brands such as Mitutoyo, Starrett, Brown and Sharp, Fowler, SPI, and Shar... in that sort of range.

MCS Direct and Global industries has some great prices, more affordable than I expected. Might actually be able to afford some stuff new right off the bat.

Never even considered gage blocks, that seems worthy of adding to the "to be acquired" list. Certainly add a piece of mind and might help practicing my measuring skills. Is there a term for a ring or circle kind of gage block to practice or check T bore gauge?

Plan is to slowly replace and acquire new measuring tools, some used and some new if in immediate budget.

ANOTHTER RELATED QUESTION:

The most critical skill task that comes up most often is cylinder to piston clearance, ie measuring both the piston diameter and cylinder bore.

Edit for accuracy (ten thousandths not hundred thousandths) : I've read some threads saying that a .0005" (5 tenthousandth of an inch) bore gauge isn't accurate enough and that it should be .0001" (1 ten thousandth of inch.) Is there truth to this?

I know the YZ clearance for OEM piston clearance is spec'd at .0018-.0020" with a limit of .004".

So at the very least, I'll need a micrometer that has graduations to .0001". A lot of the cylinder bore gauages are only .0005". I assume that I'll need to be looking for the more precise ones that go to .0001", or is that overkill?

I think I kinda know the answer.. that I need the .0001" to do it right. Confirmation is always good. :laughing

Great info, appreciate any further input folks can share. :thumbup
 
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auntiebling

auntiebling

megalomaniacal troglodyte
Staff member
OaklandF4i said:
Is there a term for a ring or circle kind of gage block to practice or check T bore gauge?
Click to expand...

shockingly enough, it's a Ring Gage. i don't think you really need one though.

you could use the inside race of a ball bearing would work too.


your clearance numbers sound an order of magnitude too precise. a caliper is good to .xxx, micrometer to .xxxx. beyond that you need to make sure nothing is touching your parts and the environment and part are at the same temperature every time. what They might be saying is that the measurement a device delivers is not as accurate as the readout. i'm awkwardly explaining this, sorry. if you're after .xxxx precision, ideally the tool you're using is claiming accuracy to .xxxxy, one decimal place beyond what you need. where exactly this idea came from i don't know but i heard it ages ago in my machine shop class in college and it's prooven fairly accurate in my experience.

where you find a micrometer claiming accuracy to 5 decimal places i don't know , and i know i don't want to know the price.
 
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OaklandF4i

OaklandF4i

Darwin's exception
auntiebling said:
shockingly enough, it's a Ring Gage. i don't think you really need one though.

you could use the inside race of a ball bearing would work too.


your clearance numbers sound an order of magnitude too precise. a caliper is good to .xxx, micrometer to .xxxx. beyond that you need to make sure nothing is touching your parts and the environment and part are at the same temperature every time
Click to expand...

Laugh, of course.... that's only too simple. A ring gage. Was thinking of buying a single one in the 2" range to practice using a T bore gauge for cylinder measurement as bearings are much smaller. Basically practice on the size I'll be most measuring.

That also some levity, and makes sense. Especially since the limit is .004", not .00004", that's big difference.

Out of curiosity, how much does temperature affect the measurement typically? A hundred thousandth, a singe ten thousandth?

Thanks appreciate the feedback! :thumbup
 
Maddevill

Maddevill

KNGKAW
I have a really nice Mitutoyo digital caliper. Something went wrong and it only shows 2 short lines in the screen. Tried new battery, same thing. I contacted Mitutoyo and they said they would not service it. Too old.

Mad
 
B

bobl

Well-known member
Measure a piston, hold it in your hand to warm it, and you can easily find a couple tens of thousands. In addition to that, the micrometer will read differently if you hold it too long. .00001 is not applicable to motorcycles. Places that measure to that exactitude use temperature controlled rooms, where the measuring tools, and whatever is being measured are placed in a known environment. Not necessary for bikes, and not even attainable. If you have ever worked on motors, you often find things that are shockingly out of spec. on bikes that seemed to run fine. There is a lot of leeway if you're just working on a street bike. That is not to suggest that you don't need to be accurate, just that half a thousand loose on a cylinder wall is not going to break a rebuild. I always use feeler tapes for cylinder to piston measuring after boring. I worked for a former aircraft machinist. After boring a cylinder, I found a tight spot with a feeler gauge. I looked and looked at the tight spot with my dial bore gauge and could find nothing, and I looked a lot. I went to the boss, and he said "If you can feel it, it's there". Back to the finish hone, with attention paid to that part of the bore, and the feeler gauge and the dial bore all said fine. It was a lesson in old school.
 
Eric B

Eric B

Know-it-none
A “shop grade” gage block set(+/- .00005) plus 2 longer “ears”, will allow you to create a proper size and practice with telescoping gage. Not too expensive. A set of 1-2-3 blocks, or better yet, universal blocks can be handy at times.
 
OaklandF4i

OaklandF4i

Darwin's exception
auntiebling said:
shockingly enough, it's a Ring Gage. i don't think you really need one though.

you could use the inside race of a ball bearing would work too.


your clearance numbers sound an order of magnitude too precise. a caliper is good to .xxx, micrometer to .xxxx. beyond that you need to make sure nothing is touching your parts and the environment and part are at the same temperature every time. what They might be saying is that the measurement a device delivers is not as accurate as the readout. i'm awkwardly explaining this, sorry. if you're after .xxxx precision, ideally the tool you're using is claiming accuracy to .xxxxy, one decimal place beyond what you need. where exactly this idea came from i don't know but i heard it ages ago in my machine shop class in college and it's prooven fairly accurate in my experience.

where you find a micrometer claiming accuracy to 5 decimal places i don't know , and i know i don't want to know the price.
Click to expand...

Shit... my bad. I just reread a couple of the bore gauge tutorials where I thought they claimed the needed accuracy for motorcycle work was .00001 ITS ACTUALLY .0001, one ten thousandth! So .XXXX and not .XXXXX Seeing one too many zeros. Been on the internet too long today :facepalm

I did find a reasonably priced Fowler 2-3" micrometer that reads to .xxxx, so adding that for now. Its manual, no rolling counter or digital read out. But its only $27, I'm familiar enough reading them, for the price will be a step up from the HF for this build. Digital ones were many times more expensive.

Going to keep an eye on Ebay for used Mitutoyo, Starrett, Brown and Sharp, etc roller counter or digital one.

Will also be watching prices on the dial bore gauges. Seems like the Fowler, SPI, or Shars can be had in $150-200 range. Thats the next highest on the list for purchase.

Really appreciate the info, I'm learning a lot in this thread. :thumbup

Eric B said:
A “shop grade” gage block set(+/- .00005) plus 2 longer “ears”, will allow you to create a proper size and practice with telescoping gage. Not too expensive. A set of 1-2-3 blocks, or better yet, universal blocks can be handy at times.
Click to expand...

Had to google that Eric..... looking online for a ring gage and they are some bucks. :( Really looking for something with a know precise measurement in the 2"ish range to practice with a t bore gauge. Preferably something under $15 or so bucks. Machinist blocks on ebay seem to be more spendy. Maybe I'm unrealistic. Open to suggestions.
 
OaklandF4i

OaklandF4i

Darwin's exception
Update:

Ordered a couple new tools and keeping a couple searches open.

New Fowler Stainless Steel Euro-Cal IV Digital Caliper (thanks for the recommendation Stever) $65 :thumbup

New Fowler 2-3" micrometer with ratchet no readout

Looking at a couple of Shars and SPI bore gauges. Hoping to have budget next month for at least a dial version of either. Shars has a dial version for just over $100 and electronic for $180, both in the 1.4-6" bore range which should cover just about any motorcycle I ever work on. SPI dial version splits the price of those two.

Will practice with the T bore snap gauges in the interim, maybe pick up used premium brand if some show up on ebay.

Going to keep watching ebay for used Mitutoyo, Starrret, and other premium brand digital analog micrometers, bore gauage if I get lucky, and some shop grade gage blocks.

Thanks for all the feedback and advice. Prices are more reasonable than I expected now that I think I know what to look for. :toothless

Learned a lot even a couple places to look at quality tools like MSC.

Happy wrenching. :ride
 
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