Pacific Track Time Adds September 5th/6th, 2020 weekend at Sonoma Raceway!

[peterhively]

MotoGP/FIM spec curb paint does offer grip as good or better than the asphalt. Sonoma, not yet. The track surface and the paint, are a little tired. Grip as good as the asphalt? No. You can touch the paint with some lean angle here and there later in the day without drama, but I stay off it early in the day when it's chilly, and don't use it with much lean angle.

There are a few curbs at Sonoma I run over on purpose, but only straight up and down or close to it. Exit of 7, exit of 1.

If you clip the curb on the entry to that corner, you've hit a bump, that's also off camber, and painted, that pretty much nobody else has been riding on, so it's dusty, with a lot of lean angle, which is a lot to ask of your front tire.

As for braking, I'm easing off it at that point but I'm certainly not getting my braking done before turn in...because I'm not yet at the slowest point of the corner. But that's another topic.

There's a nice smooth line just outside that turn 7 entry curb. Two feet wide of that there's a bump. I go in between the curb and the bump, but if I am a bit wide for some reason I ease up on the brakes and the steering until I'm past that bump.

 

[Mario]

Thanks Tom, really appreciate the feedback! I need to reach out for more advice from the track experts, my crash would have been avoided if I knew I had to avoid hitting the rumble strips.

On turn 7 crash, you are right, I did hit the rumble strips but thought it was the paint that got me. On the R3 I carry brakes deep into the turns and likely was on the brakes. Regarding the lines, I noticed that everyone took a wide line there and that I was able to take a tighter line that was working better for me (the few times I was able to hit it right). I should have reached out to learn the different lines.

Regarding her crash, I agree! I think it is a case of inexperience. She never had the rear slide, very easy on the 750. She never knew that this could happen, less how to control it or save it. She rides dirt but not enough experience with sliding. Hard way to learn a lesson. Maybe some flat track classes could help?

@TWT: I'll try hard to get both bikes patched up for Buttonwillow. The R3 needs some levers and some gluing of the bodywork. The GSXR needs to go to get the fork and frames checked, so unknown if it will make it. Worst case I'll take the supermoto.

@Jack: 1) yeah, she's OK! Bruised limbs, nothing major. She got lucky! 2) That was the same question I had when they came back without the bike! Didn't think it was possible. Then I saw the video :wow

 

[Mario]

@peterhively: thanks for the explanation! I started track riding in the midwest (Barber, RA, NCM, etc) and assumed all curbings were the same. I remember someone telling me it was OK to get on it, but don't remember what track this was. Lesson learned.

Regarding turn 7, I will have to study that a bit more. Can you take a look at the clip below? Time 0:40 I take it tight on turn 7. I do not see the bump you are talking about (I am on the R3 that appears at 0:23 on the right)


youtu.be/h5bx6VZlMSg?t=20

 

[peterhively]

As for Ms A in the bus stop, wow, that was really fookin scary.

That is a really technical section of the track. There's a lot going on there.

Starting with a tight entry, one thing led to another, running wide out of the Turn 9 right hander, leading to running over the paint inside of the 9a left hander with the bike pointed to the outside, then still having to finish the corner, finally adding lean angle late on the exit while trying to add throttle led to the slide and high side and getting shot out of the saddle. Nice save!!! :thumbup:ridearty

But then being out of position and unable to control the bike. So scary! Hard to see, had to watch several times in slow mo, HD, and full screen but it looks like she had both legs on the left side of the bike, crossed up over the tank and hanging on for dear life. Keep your eye on the white stripe on her right hip/upper leg. You can see it from when she lands back on the bike til she hits the wall at which time it's clear that she was no longer astride the machine. The whole time you can see her left foot dangling but not the right...until right at the end...was her right knee on the seat??? I'd love to hear more about that part. Fookin scary. Great to see her walk away from that.

Definitely take that bike to see Gerry!

Oh and camera bike I'm glad you backed off for safety, but next time maybe stay a little closer so we can see better!

 

[peterhively]

@peterhively: thanks for the explanation! I started track riding in the midwest (Barber, RA, NCM, etc) and assumed all curbings were the same. I remember someone telling me it was OK to get on it, but don't remember what track this was. Lesson learned.

Regarding turn 7, I will have to study that a bit more. Can you take a look at the clip below? Time 0:40 I take it tight on turn 7. I do not see the bump you are talking about (I am on the R3 that appears at 0:23 on the right)


youtu.be/h5bx6VZlMSg?t=20

I'm still not sure exactly where that bump is, I've never seen it but I've sure felt it. I think it is just inside of where you ended up. There's that patch there, they fixed it once but I think it's coming back, as you transition from that patch back to the regular asphalt. All I know is if I hit my mark just off the curb I miss the bump, if I go a little wide sometimes I hit it.

 

[peterhively]

She rides dirt but not enough experience with sliding. Hard way to learn a lesson. Maybe some flat track classes could help?

There's at least two of us on here that are going to https://www.americansupercamp.com/ at Santa Rosa in November! :ridearty:ridearty:ridearty

Also see http://www.feellikeaprodirt.com/ and https://www.richoliver.net/collections/courses

 

[two wheel tramp]

There's at least two of us on here that are going to https://www.americansupercamp.com/ at Santa Rosa in November! :ridearty:ridearty:ridearty

Also see http://www.feellikeaprodirt.com/ and https://www.richoliver.net/collections/courses

Mario, I will be at the flat track class in November. arty

And FYI, Peter is the nice fellow I was pitting with in the Garage mahal. :laughing

So glad you two both walked away, hope to see you at Laguna and/or T-hill and DEFINITELY at SuperCamp.

 

[peterhively]

Sonoma 2019 MotoAmerica Junior Cup race for track position reference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfFIzttxynY

 

[ThinkFast]

@peterhively: thanks for the explanation! I started track riding in the midwest (Barber, RA, NCM, etc) and assumed all curbings were the same. I remember someone telling me it was OK to get on it, but don't remember what track this was. Lesson learned.

Regarding turn 7, I will have to study that a bit more. Can you take a look at the clip below? Time 0:40 I take it tight on turn 7. I do not see the bump you are talking about (I am on the R3 that appears at 0:23 on the right)


youtu.be/h5bx6VZlMSg?t=20

Mario - the curb *is* the bump! In the video you posted of your crash you can see your front end jump when you hit it immediately before you went down.

At Sonoma the only curb I regularly run over is the one at the exit of T1. By then I've got the bike straight up and on the gas, so upsetting the suspension is not going to cause any dramas. Otherwise, my advice to you would be to stay off the curbs on that track!

Paint is different. Even if it's got grit in it, it's slippery when damp - which is in the mornings (or if there's rain). As a general rule there's no reason to be on it. Of course that's a general rule. Always exceptions. OTOH, remember: it's a track day, not a race. Why take unnecessary risks???

 

[ThinkFast]

Mario, I will be at the flat track class in November. arty

And FYI, Peter is the nice fellow I was pitting with in the Garage mahal. :laughing

So glad you two both walked away, hope to see you at Laguna and/or T-hill and DEFINITELY at SuperCamp.

When I did a weekend long American SuperCamp in Santa Rosa a few years ago, I thought it was very well run.

It's less clear to me now, though, how much of what I took away from it translated at all into my street and track riding. I don't recall the drills including much power sliding while on the gas on exits as much as dragging the rear brake to get the bike to rotate on entries. This is useful to learn for road racing and supermotarding, where backing it in is an advanced skill used mostly on bigger bikes (not as much on lightweights); as well as dirt/adventure riding. Personally, I never did like anything sliding around under me when I was roadracing :laughing.

Other people may have a different perspective on this. Just my $0.02.

 

[davemon]

Glad you are both ok. Hoping the same for the person who crashed not far ahead of me in T4 and appeared unconscious in the dirt and dust cloud when I went past. That was the long track shut down on Sunday before lunch.

I was there Saturday and Sunday on a Duke 890R and watched your vids. Yours was hitting the curb. The tire went up but couldn't come down hard/fast enough to keep you stuck to the track so you low sided. Not sure about the other crash but folks have clearly examined the video and pics carefully.

What group were you two running in?

 

[Mario]

@Peter, I have asked "Ms A" to create an account and post the story. She is hanging both legs on one side. Don't want to say anything else because I have no idea what was going on in her mind when that happened, I'm sure we would all react very differently.

@Peter & @TWT I will take a look at the american supercamp thing, I've been talking about doing something like this for ages!

@Tom, thanks for the feedback! You are right, it is just a track day (until that liter bike flies past you and you want to show them how its done in the turns haha). Seriously, though, I see the advantage of a flat track class to learn smooth throttle control. As you say, probably will never 'back it in' even on the supermoto at the track. I do think all of the years of dirt biking that I've done contributed to my throttle control, I did slide on the same 750 but was able to save it. She told me yesterday after the slide, she chopped the throttle completely. I think some advanced dirt bike class will build some natural reaction to these cases and maybe save a future high side. Maybe

@Davemon, I was B group both days, "Mr E" was also in B group, "Ms A" was C on saturday, B on Sunday. I am assuming you were A, I think the long track shutdown was in A, right? No idea what happened, hope whoever went down is OK.

 

[dpwracing]

@Peter, I have asked "Ms A" to create an account and post the story. She is hanging both legs on one side. Don't want to say anything else because I have no idea what was going on in her mind when that happened, I'm sure we would all react very differently.

I had an almost carbon copy of that crash many years ago, at a different track.

Near highside exiting a corner, bike tosses me over to one side and my chest ends up on top of the windscreen, both legs dangling on one side. Tried to ride it out and get back on the bike. Unfortunately, with almost no leverage in that position I just couldn't do it before I went into the grass and then fully lost traction. Went down and destroyed the bike.

Probably not much she could have done on this. Maybe if the wall hadn't been there she could have ridden it out.

 

[Mario]

Sorry to hear, dude. I wish I never get in this situation. I am super cautious with the throttle when exiting turns on the 750. I am not afraid of low sides, I have quite a few under my belt. I never had a high side and not ever looking forward to one.

Damage report: Yamaha looks like a simple fix. Time to upgrade to clip-ons, replace stock fairing with race plastics. GSXR depends on frame/fork measurements. If they are straight, just need new clip-ons, levers and plastics. More money to dump on this sport... yay :laughing

 

[davemon]

@Peter & @TWT I will take a look at the american supercamp thing, I've been talking about doing something like this for ages!


@Davemon, I was B group both days, "Mr E" was also in B group, "Ms A" was C on saturday, B on Sunday. I am assuming you were A, I think the long track shutdown was in A, right? No idea what happened, hope whoever went down is OK.[/QUOTE]


Supercamp is AWESOME. I did the two day class 15 years ago-ish and loved it. I wasn't a great studenet despite trying to be but eventually it clicked. I don't slide street bikes around on track much but the back end dances in hard braking zones and I have steered a little with the throttle here and there on days where I'm really "clicking" with the bike and the world. I think Supercamp did some of this for me as I haven't ridden dirt since I was a teen.

Yes, I was in A group both days on my Duke. The crash was maybe five minutes into our session and I was thankful we weren't red flagged in the heat. I was past the unfortunate crash before flags came out as it had "just" happened. The whole next session was taken too, that is when the compressed the sessions to get back on schedule, which worked well.

 

[inthewoods]

What I would like to know is who trashed the mens restrooms under the grandstands? And who leaves there effing garbage all over the pits? Rugs stuffed in cans, tires everywhere. Pigs.