OK - now about Rotella T6 oil. . . synthetic

[W800]

So I have heard for a long time that people get good results with Rotella. I read BITOG and they seem to like it. Amazon reviews are good, etc. . . too.

So I put in some Rotella T6, full synthetic. It's MA and MA2 rated, which is what Kawasaki requires. Weight is 15w-40 and Kawasaki recommends 10w-40. But at operating temperature, they are the same, And I live close enough to the coast that it never gets that cold to where I would need 10W anyway.

Then I go on the FB page for my bike model and people are like "ooh, synthetic makes your clutch slip." I keep asking for links, but nobody has any.

Has anyone heard of this with T6 or any other synthetic? It just seems apocryphal. Both MA and MA2 have to have a certain amount of friction, so there's not a way that a synthetic would have less friction than a dino, IMHO.

My personal experience is that the bike idles nice and smooth. The gear whine from the bevel gears that drive the cams are more quiet, and it shifts just fine. Could just be that it's new oil too. But I am not noticing any slippage at all.

 

[Tally Whacker]

I've run Rotella T in my bikes for many years and never had any clutch problems.

 

[stangmx13]

synthetic oil will not categorically make a clutch slip. if it has the correct ratings, you are all good. dont listen to random ppl on FB.

 

[W800]

I've run Rotella T in my bikes for many years and never had any clutch problems.

Yes, thank you for saying that. What I think happened is that this FB page I am talking about works like an internet echo chamber. So all it takes is for one person to claim their clutch slips on synthetics, then it just gets repeated. Over time, people can't even point to the original post, if there even was one.

I remember something like this when I was growing up. The claim was that Armor-All would crack your dash on your car. The reality is that Armor-All is simply a silicone. I would have to check some things, but I think it's literally the same silicone that's in hair conditioner and hair spray. That particular silicone is also in some non-stick cooking sprays.

It's so innocuous that it's not even capable of causing harm. What I think was happening is that dashes back in the late 1970's and early 1980's were simply crappy plastic. They were going to crack no matter what. So if they cracked, people blamed it on the Armor-All. But they would have cracked without it too.

Someone MAY have had a clutch that slipped at some point. But it would have slipped regardless of the oil. That's my theory at least.

 

[W800]

synthetic oil will not categorically make a clutch slip. if it has the correct ratings, you are all good. dont listen to random ppl on FB.

Truth!!!

I was explaining to my roommates yesterday how gas-lighting works. So many people these days lack discernment. They will see something in social media and assume its "truth." Nowadays people talk about "speak my truth," and crap like that. But it's not rooted in anything at all.

ETA: to be more specific, I was trying to explain to them that "internet isn't reality." It's called "hyper-reality." It does not even reflect reality anymore. It creates its own "truth," which may only be slightly related to tangible reality.

Today abstraction is no longer that of the map, the double, the mirror, or the concept. Simulation is no longer that of a territory, a referential being, or a substance. It is the generation by models of a real without origin or reality: a hyperreal. The territory no longer precedes the map, nor does it survive it. It is nevertheless the map that precedes the territory - precession of simulacra - that engenders the territory [. . . ]

https://www.e-reading.life/bookreader.php/144970/jean-baudrillard-simulacra-and-simulation.pdf

The problem is that once people get stuck in this echo chamber, they can't even see they are in it.

 

[dravnx]

Synthetic oil with friction modifiers will ruin your clutch.
You gotta watch the half truths.
I've run T6 for years.

 

[W800]

Synthetic oil with friction modifiers will ruin your clutch.
You gotta watch the half truths.
I've run T6 for years.

Agreed. I didn't even trust the description at Amazon. I literally looked at the bottle when I got it and read the MA / MA2 rating. I remember when I rode Harleys that they said if I ever could not find "Harley Oil," just to run diesel oil and it would not hurt anything. Now I know why (diesel oil doesn't have friction modifiers, and that's likely why Shell was able to get the MA / MA2).

 

[cheez]

The rule is pretty simple. If it's JASO-MA rated, it doesn't have friction modifiers and is safe for wet clutches. Rotella T (dino) and Rotella T6 (synthetic) are both JASO-MA rated and are suitable for use with your wet clutch application.

I've got 100k+ miles on a Honda VTX1800R with wet clutch, and they've all been on Rotella T6 with K&N filters.

 

[W800]

The rule is pretty simple. If it's JASO-MA rated, it doesn't have friction modifiers and is safe for wet clutches. Rotella T (dino) and Rotella T6 (synthetic) are both JASO-MA rated and are suitable for use with your wet clutch application.

I've got 100k+ miles on a Honda VTX1800R with wet clutch, and they've all been on Rotella T6 with K&N filters.

Good to know! Yes - I knew about T5 being a no-no. T4/T6 tho, GTG!

 

[DannoXYZ]

Uh... T6 can also be found in 5w-40. Use that instead of 15w-40.

And it’s not one of those high-mileage/fuel-efficient oils with extra friction modifiers that’ll cause slippage. Besides, that’s what extra beefy clutch-springs are for!

 

[Busy Little Shop]

Has anyone heard of this with T6 or any other synthetic?

The holy trinity of science is 1)Reason 2)Observation 3)Experience...
employing those tools we observe that the primary cause clutch slip
are high mileage... mileage is the constant among all of the clutches
that begin to slip... oil choice whether synthetic or not is never a
constant... High mileage is the constant where all clutches begin to
loose grip due to normal glazing and contaminates that build up over use...

Understanding synthetics means more refining to remove less desirable
elements from crude until what’s left is mostly higher-performing
molecular structures. Waxy stuff had to go because it made oil congeal
at winter temperatures. Aromatics had to go because they lost
viscosity too rapidly when hot. Unsaturates had to go because they
were vulnerable to heat-driven gumming and sludging. And so on.

What is 100% true for all the synthetics are uniform sized molecules
that don't exists naturally... so armed with that knowledge you can
shop for the best synthetic price because no matter what brand of
uniform molecules we choose they will meet or exceed our mileage
expectations...

 

[Busy Little Shop]

Synthetic oil with friction modifiers will ruin your clutch.

Negative...
Friction modifiers additives are only a small percent of the total oil product and
help the base oil do things that it otherwise could not... Additives fall into
several basic categories but Moly, Phosphors and Zinc are the most often used
friction modifiers... what ever small percent of FM employed they will not defeat
a wet clutch in good working order...

 

[Busy Little Shop]

The rule is pretty simple. If it's JASO-MA rated

Simply JASO is not much help...

JASO does not test oils. They register oils based on manufacturer
data and site. Most of the data is generated by additive package
manufacturers. The system is just for registration. They hate any term
that implies their approval such as “certified by”.

Cost to register one grade of oil from one manufacturing site is
40,000 Japanese Yen or about USD 365.00.

JASO sets the standard. JALOS has the responsibility for the review
and registration. Once this is done you have the right to use the mark
on your labels. The documents submitted for review include the
technical performance data and label design.

JASO has approved 1,537 oils as of Dec 2019 which covers virtually
everything on the market... From 0w to mono grades... from 30 to 60
multi grades... from Auto to Cycle oils and yet not a single oil is
JASO tested to have defeated a wet clutch... in fact the results
of their market surveys are in a manner such that particular names of
submitters and their oil products are not identifiable.

 

[Busy Little Shop]

Weight is 15w-40 and Kawasaki recommends 10w-40. But at operating temperature, they are the same, And I live close enough to the coast that it never gets that cold to where I would need 10W anyway.

.

True... at operating temperature (212ºF 100ºC) grades 10w40 and 15w40 flow
within the same viscosity range of 12.5 to 16.3 cSt... and I literally mean gravity
flow because API grades all oils on gravity flow... it ain't a measurement of thick
or thin like most believe...

Technically speaking the more flow is more protection and more flow lowers
temp not to mention the more flow frees up more HP... sound reasons to run a 30 grade...

 

[thepretender]

Your mistake was going to FaceBag for moto advice.

 

[DannoXYZ]

Here's some good reads on moto oil.

https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/oils-well-that-ends-well-part-1/
https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/oils-well-that-ends-well-part-2/

 

[W800]

Uh... T6 can also be found in 5w-40. Use that instead of 15w-40.

And it’s not one of those high-mileage/fuel-efficient oils with extra friction modifiers that’ll cause slippage. Besides, that’s what extra beefy clutch-springs are for!

Good suggestion! I Question:

The reason that I went with the heavier is it's a two cylinder air-cooled engine, based on a design from 2000 Do you think lighter or heavier oils are best for engines like that?

 

[W800]

The holy trinity of science is 1)Reason 2)Observation 3)Experience...
employing those tools we observe that the primary cause clutch slip
are high mileage... mileage is the constant among all of the clutches
that begin to slip... oil choice whether synthetic or not is never a
constant... High mileage is the constant where all clutches begin to
loose grip due to normal glazing and contaminates that build up over use...

Good info! Thank you for the post!

 

[W800]

Negative...
Friction modifiers additives are only a small percent of the total oil product and
help the base oil do things that it otherwise could not... Additives fall into
several basic categories but Moly, Phosphors and Zinc are the most often used
friction modifiers... what ever small percent of FM employed they will not defeat
a wet clutch in good working order...

Good info too. I am getting sense now there is way more FUD than I imagined.

 

[W800]

Here's some good reads on moto oil.

https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/oils-well-that-ends-well-part-1/
https://www.cycleworld.com/sport-rider/oils-well-that-ends-well-part-2/

(I should have done multi-quote!)

NICE - the second article was fascinating. You can literally see how different oil manufacturers formulate differently. The Dyno charts were fascinating too.