Need a Lemon Law Lawyer

Toecutter

Toecutter

Well-known member
Hello, I am in need of a lemon law lawyer for my fight with Ducati North America. Anyone know of a good local, motorcycle friendly lawyer who has experience in this area?

Thanks.

OK here are some of my problems with My '16 Hypermotard. I have a lemon, a big POS. I have had way too many problems for a new bike. This Ducati is garbage. Here we go.........rant in 3, 2, 1!

1. In the first 500 miles, My luggage broke- the handle came off and one of the key assemblies would not work, luckily it came with a spare (these are Ducati accessories from the hyperstrada). My front fender vibrated loose and I lost a bolt. I also had both exhaust springs pop off. All was replaced and fixed at first service under warranty at 500 miles.

2. Electronics Issue, bike would go into limp mode, not idle correctly and loose power, this was an intermittent problem that came and went over a few days until I got it too the dealer. Issue was fixed due to a recall, which ducati never notified me of, but the dealer knew about it and also did not tell me(until the bike was at the shop).

3. More exhaust springs popped off, 7 or 8 in total. Exhaust bracket under right foot peg cracked in half. Dealer took whole exhaust system off and reinstalled. It was suspected that it was out of spec/assembled wrong at the factory. no issues for a while...see #10

4. Right foot peg assembly came loose and both passenger pegs vibrated loose and would no longer stay up in the locked position. My swing arm bolt also was loose and well as my front sprocket bolt. The rubber dampening bushings at the base of the engine were replaces as were the pegs and all related hardware.

5. Crank case breather and rear brake reservoir vibrated loose and were dangling on bike. I had to tighten up everything.

6. Arm on kick stand snapped off, just the part that makes it easy to put down with your foot. kickstand still works, just a bit more difficult to hit with your foot.

7. Coil on front cylinder was broken and had to be replaced.

8. Front brake rotors are warped, I have developed a pulse under heavy breaking.

9. Transmission is shit. I get false neutrals once in a while, and it is difficult to shift into neutral at stops. Dealer cant do anything, I just have to live with it.

10. Got an engine error code BBS. The exhaust valve assembly on the pipe cracked loose and the cable broke.

11. Oil Cooler lines vibrated loose on a ride and covered the bottom of my engine with oil. not too bad, I re tightened and got it home. One of the bolts holding it on also snapped off.

12. Oil cooler lines vibrated together and fraid and dumped oil all over engine and rear tire, luckly I did not go down.

13. Front header cracked near O2 sensor, need to be replaced. I am currently waiting for parts form italy.

I currently have 15000 miles on the bike and it is 17 months old. It has spent 85 days in the shop since I bought it.

Do not buy a hypermotard, it is garbage.
 
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Dillonaire

Dillonaire

Asshat
I feel your pain and I hope you win.

try Cali Leomon Lawyers. Never used them but they have good reviews of winning cases and not just taking your money.

California Lemon Lawyers
(408) 727-8882
 
cg_ops

cg_ops

1-Armed Bandit
Fortuitous that I saw this thread as I'm about to file one against KTM/Husky over my 701. At this point, I don't know if I could ever buy one of their products ever again.

Long story short; coolant leak that won't go away. Currently in for the 3rd time for it and is at (combined) week 7 in the shop. Dealer is as pissed as me that KTM/Husky has offered NO useful support to diagnose the issue.
 
anytwowilldo

anytwowilldo

Well-known member
I guess the difference between bikes and cars is no loaner. A friend had his M3 in the shop for about 180 days last year, which didn't bother him so much because he put 8-10 thousand miles on their loaners and ended up with tons of new parts and tires on his car.

With the bike, I guess you are just out of luck, which is just wrong. I hope you are able to find a solution quickly.
 
Entoptic

Entoptic

Red Power!
cg_ops said:
Fortuitous that I saw this thread as I'm about to file one against KTM/Husky over my 701. At this point, I don't know if I could ever buy one of their products ever again.

Long story short; coolant leak that won't go away. Currently in for the 3rd time for it and is at (combined) week 7 in the shop. Dealer is as pissed as me that KTM/Husky has offered NO useful support to diagnose the issue.
Click to expand...

You may want to consider the source and attempt to contact Husqvarna outside of the dealership.

The only way I’ve had things speed up is if I contact the company myself. Dealers don’t give a shit.
 
cg_ops

cg_ops

1-Armed Bandit
Hah, 6 calls to KTM/Husky. I have a good relationship with the dealer, they've been going to bat for me against Husky. Video of issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6GTJV9CDgo&t=2s

- They don't answer. You HAVE to leave a VM and they'll call you back in 8-36 hours.

- They refused to talk to me unless I had my VIN handy. Not that big of a deal but they kept say it was to make sure any issues were covered under warranty despite the fact that no US based 701 has been here long enough to fall out of warranty (2 years)

- After explaining that my issue was difficult for the dealer to reproduce the first time it went in (only leaked, at the time, at 80%+ throttle under load) they just tell me to take it back. That's it... talk to your dealer. Period.

- After the 2nd trip to the dealer failed to resolve the issue I made several more calls. Dealer pushed to have it taken to a facility with a dyno so that the issues could be replicated without breaking the law. Each time, I'm told to just work with my dealer, dealer says short of pulling the bike apart and ripping the head off, not much more they can do under warranty unless Husky gives the OK (they haven't yet). Dealer is getting the run-around from the KTM/Husky rep ("Kevin")

- More calls with Kevin. Now I'm pissed because they repeatedly offer only 2 solutions: go back to your dealer or go to a new dealer. I ask if they can point me towards a dealer with a dyno or if I can take it to a shop with a dyno... "No". So I call my dealer back and he's pissed at them too by now... they keep telling him to work with the customer to diagnose then get approval for repair.

- Last call to Kevin and I'm irate. Ask him to explain EXACTLY what it is that their customer service line is for since the ONLY support they give me is to talk to my dealer. I then tell them about getting Yamaha and Suzuki to step in on my behalf with minor issues I've had in the past and that I can't believe Husky, a "premium" brand is unwilling to do the same with an issue that renders the bike useless. (It leaks fast enough to empty the radiator in 10 minutes at this point). He says, "They're bigger than we are. Our dealers are our front line customer support" to which I reply, "Well, your front line support keeps telling me they're calling for reinforcements and you refuse to help." He just says that I'l need to keep working with them, maybe pay out of pocket for diagnosis and MAYBE get reimbursed. So, losing my cool, I offer this up... "Well, seeing as I've made good faith attempts at fixing the issue twice already, let's assume they don't fix it after attempt #3 and 7+ weeks in the shop. I see only a couple of options: run the motor without coolant till it seizes and have it replaced under warranty. Or, just file for lemon law (needs to meet 1 of the criteria, mine meets 2)? If you can give me an option 3 that isn't "talk to your dealer" I'd love to hear it". He offers up, "I can see how it's frustrating but no, you'll just need to work with your dealer" After that, I'm so pissed I just hang up.

- Call dealer the next day and they say they talked to Kevin and they were finally given approval to perform any/all necessary diagnostic work needed to fix the issue... to which he interpreted as "pull the head if you need to, it'll be covered under warranty" So, that's where we're at now.

I will be surprised if the issue isn't fixed after this visit to the shop. However, I'm not going to rest on the issue till I know for sure. What make this more aggravating is that my bike was the US press bike before it officially launched. I'd think that they'd acknowledge this and take a modicum of interest in making sure that the issues were handled quickly on a bike they enabled to be beat on for the first 1400 miles. The only consolation I have is that bike was sold as new to me with the warranty starting from the date I bought the bike.
 
S

Schnellbandit

I see 4 lights!
Leaking coolant? Coolant that leaks into the environment is hazardous waste. Coolant leaking onto the ground can cause the bike to slip and the rider to loose control. Leaking coolant can result in an overhated engine causing it to stop running and thus presents a real danger to safety.

File with NTSA as a safety claim. Then make noise with other owners who have the issue and get them to file likewise.

It can work and move the company to address the problem right away. There is a way to write the claims with the NTSA that gets attention. Once that happens, a phone call from the agency to the company results in a lot of squirming by the people slow screwing you.

I can help you get that part done. I've done it before.
 
ratsblast

ratsblast

Well-known member
Have a buddy follow you in a truck, run the fucker till the engine melts down, return it to ktm, problem should be obvious by then.
 
Dillonaire

Dillonaire

Asshat
anytwowilldo said:
I guess the difference between bikes and cars is no loaner. A friend had his M3 in the shop for about 180 days last year, which didn't bother him so much because he put 8-10 thousand miles on their loaners and ended up with tons of new parts and tires on his car.

With the bike, I guess you are just out of luck, which is just wrong. I hope you are able to find a solution quickly.
Click to expand...


Yeaa....this is my situation with my landrover. Since May its been in the shop twice. First time for 3 weeks for a new turbo and this time its going on 4 weeks for brakes and some weird noise when steering. I dont care and I dont even call to check up on it because I have a free loaner that is nicer than my 2015 Landrover (rental: 2017 Jaguar SUV). Ill put the miles on their cars all day. :laughing
 
clutchslip

clutchslip

Not as fast as I look.
cg_ops said:
Hah, 6 calls to KTM/Husky. I have a good relationship with the dealer, they've been going to bat for me against Husky. Video of issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6GTJV9CDgo&t=2s

- They don't answer. You HAVE to leave a VM and they'll call you back in 8-36 hours.

- They refused to talk to me unless I had my VIN handy. Not that big of a deal but they kept say it was to make sure any issues were covered under warranty despite the fact that no US based 701 has been here long enough to fall out of warranty (2 years)

- After explaining that my issue was difficult for the dealer to reproduce the first time it went in (only leaked, at the time, at 80%+ throttle under load) they just tell me to take it back. That's it... talk to your dealer. Period.

- After the 2nd trip to the dealer failed to resolve the issue I made several more calls. Dealer pushed to have it taken to a facility with a dyno so that the issues could be replicated without breaking the law. Each time, I'm told to just work with my dealer, dealer says short of pulling the bike apart and ripping the head off, not much more they can do under warranty unless Husky gives the OK (they haven't yet). Dealer is getting the run-around from the KTM/Husky rep ("Kevin")

- More calls with Kevin. Now I'm pissed because they repeatedly offer only 2 solutions: go back to your dealer or go to a new dealer. I ask if they can point me towards a dealer with a dyno or if I can take it to a shop with a dyno... "No". So I call my dealer back and he's pissed at them too by now... they keep telling him to work with the customer to diagnose then get approval for repair.

- Last call to Kevin and I'm irate. Ask him to explain EXACTLY what it is that their customer service line is for since the ONLY support they give me is to talk to my dealer. I then tell them about getting Yamaha and Suzuki to step in on my behalf with minor issues I've had in the past and that I can't believe Husky, a "premium" brand is unwilling to do the same with an issue that renders the bike useless. (It leaks fast enough to empty the radiator in 10 minutes at this point). He says, "They're bigger than we are. Our dealers are our front line customer support" to which I reply, "Well, your front line support keeps telling me they're calling for reinforcements and you refuse to help." He just says that I'l need to keep working with them, maybe pay out of pocket for diagnosis and MAYBE get reimbursed. So, losing my cool, I offer this up... "Well, seeing as I've made good faith attempts at fixing the issue twice already, let's assume they don't fix it after attempt #3 and 7+ weeks in the shop. I see only a couple of options: run the motor without coolant till it seizes and have it replaced under warranty. Or, just file for lemon law (needs to meet 1 of the criteria, mine meets 2)? If you can give me an option 3 that isn't "talk to your dealer" I'd love to hear it". He offers up, "I can see how it's frustrating but no, you'll just need to work with your dealer" After that, I'm so pissed I just hang up.

- Call dealer the next day and they say they talked to Kevin and they were finally given approval to perform any/all necessary diagnostic work needed to fix the issue... to which he interpreted as "pull the head if you need to, it'll be covered under warranty" So, that's where we're at now.

I will be surprised if the issue isn't fixed after this visit to the shop. However, I'm not going to rest on the issue till I know for sure. What make this more aggravating is that my bike was the US press bike before it officially launched. I'd think that they'd acknowledge this and take a modicum of interest in making sure that the issues were handled quickly on a bike they enabled to be beat on for the first 1400 miles. The only consolation I have is that bike was sold as new to me with the warranty starting from the date I bought the bike.
Click to expand...
You kinda UNsold me with this post. First, you think it is unreasonable to ask for a VIN? That's absurd. How are they going to document and fix problems, if they don't know what vehicle that they are fixing? Then you talk about going to other manufacturers for minor problems, hinting that maybe it is you that has regularly had issues. Then you seem to think the manufacturer, who is not in the United States, has a giant service center some place with a magic bus to haul your bike in for repairs. They don't, so of course, you will have to work with a dealer. Isn't this true with every new vehicle?

I can understand you being upset, but you have to face reality sometimes and be a little reasonable. This sounds like a bit of fault from everyone, and guess what, now they are going to fix it.

(All this advice is from a guy who can be a real a-hole when it comes to service. So do as I say and not as I do.) :laughing
 
cg_ops

cg_ops

1-Armed Bandit
clutchslip said:
You kinda UNsold me with this post. First, you think it is unreasonable to ask for a VIN? That's absurd. How are they going to document and fix problems, if they don't know what vehicle that they are fixing? Then you talk about going to other manufacturers for minor problems, hinting that maybe it is you that has regularly had issues. Then you seem to think the manufacturer, who is not in the United States, has a giant service center some place with a magic bus to haul your bike in for repairs. They don't, so of course, you will have to work with a dealer. Isn't this true with every new vehicle?

I can understand you being upset, but you have to face reality sometimes and be a little reasonable. This sounds like a bit of fault from everyone, and guess what, now they are going to fix it.

(All this advice is from a guy who can be a real a-hole when it comes to service. So do as I say and not as I do.) :laughing
Click to expand...

It's all paraphrased so you might be looking deeper into nuances of cliff's notes than you need to.

-First call was also to ask a couple general questions: Whether this was a known issue or if it had occurred on the 690s (the support # is KTM's line) as well as to ask if they could offer general troubleshooting tidbits for diagnosing coolant leaks from the overflow reservoir. (A known issue for 690s is the valve in the radiator cap not holding pressure and pushing coolant out of the overflow. This was replaced on my 2nd visit as a precaution since it's a known issue). Since you have to wait for them to call you back up to 2 days after your voicemail, I didn't have the VIN on me when they finally called... 2 days later. For later calls I saved the VIN to a note on my phone.

-I stated the issues with other bikes to Kevin: bad high-beam ballast on R6 (dealer thought it was just dead/dying bulb), bad electronics on SV650S (loose wire from factory caused a short, dealer initially replaced rectifier that shorted out soon after). Both issues were misdiagnosed by the dealer (San Luis Motorsports) and needed to be sorted a 2nd time within a few months. So I called the manufacturer to see what next steps were. In both cases they went through some troubleshooting over the phone and then communicated the likely solution to the dealer. Non-issues in both cases. Dealer was cool. Manufacturer was cool. No issues with the 2nd R6, Gixxer 750, or WR250 that I've own.

-It was the Dealer that told me about the service training center KTM has in SoCal where his training was done (hinting at it being done on some customer's bikes) and that their center had all the diagnostic tools to figure out the issue. Again, I don't know and asked because my dealer suggested asking.

EDIT: Unrelated note; I still have that headlight from that R6 somewhere. I'd planned on turning it into a garage light at some point. High beam ballast is still broken but the low beam is still enough to light up a garage!
 
Last edited:
J

Junkie

gone for now
cg_ops said:
It's all paraphrased so you might be looking deeper into nuances of cliff's notes than you need to.

-First call was also to ask a couple general questions: Whether this was a known issue or if it had occurred on the 690s (the support # is KTM's line) as well as to ask if they could offer general troubleshooting tidbits for diagnosing coolant leaks from the overflow reservoir. (A known issue for 690s is the valve in the radiator cap not holding pressure and pushing coolant out of the overflow. This was replaced on my 2nd visit as a precaution since it's a known issue). Since you have to wait for them to call you back up to 2 days after your voicemail, I didn't have the VIN on me when they finally called... 2 days later. For later calls I saved the VIN to a note on my phone.

-I stated the issues with other bikes to Kevin: bad high-beam ballast on R6 (dealer thought it was just dead/dying bulb), bad electronics on SV650S (loose wire from factory caused a short, dealer initially replaced rectifier that shorted out soon after). Both issues were misdiagnosed by the dealer (San Luis Motorsports) and needed to be sorted a 2nd time within a few months. So I called the manufacturer to see what next steps were. In both cases they went through some troubleshooting over the phone and then communicated the likely solution to the dealer. Non-issues in both cases. Dealer was cool. Manufacturer was cool. No issues with the 2nd R6, Gixxer 750, or WR250 that I've own.

-It was the Dealer that told me about the service training center KTM has in SoCal where his training was done (hinting at it being done on some customer's bikes) and that their center had all the diagnostic tools to figure out the issue. Again, I don't know and asked because my dealer suggested asking.
Click to expand...
misdiagnosis by SLM? wow, never heard of that before...
 
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