near crash on my morning commute.

[nweaver]

I F*ed up. I didn't crash, but I came within about 3 feet of doing so, so it needs a proper writeup.

I was on the SV. Traffic on 80 was heavy, in the "turbulent flow" mode: 50 MPH to 0 to 50 MPH. I'd been through a couple stop-start events that it was obviously a pattern. I was about a mile from the start of the carpool lane at this point.


I made two major mistakes in these conditions, and one minor:

a: I let my follow distance decrease (a common symptom, people do this all the time under these conditions, when really you want to INCREASE your following distance)

b: My mind was wandering more than it should.

c: I should have left home 10 minutes earlier, that would have spared me much of the cruddy traffic.

This is the root cause of what is to follow.


The pickup truck in front of me brakes as the traffic goes to 0 again. I start braking at my normal rate.

At this point, I realize that the truck seems to be coming towards me awfully fast. Squeeze more, squeeze harder...

I feel the rear end lift as I end up stopped, and at full stop feel the rear end go smacking back down into the ground. It probably only went up about 6", but felt like a lot more. About 1 yard from the bumper in front of me. 36 inches separating me between "Pucker moment" and "OOOWWWCHHHHH".


Things I did RIGHT:

a: I did not panic even as I felt the back end lift. Panic afterwards, not before.

b: I trusted the bike and the front end. Squeeze and let it do what its supposed to do. I always trust my bikes.

c: I've got Pilot Powers. Don't skimp on tires.


Things I THINK helped:

a: I didn't bother with the rear brake. The rear locks this thing up in a hot second, and rear brake on a stoppie will lose you a gyroscope keeping you straight. If your front end will lock first (eg, a cruiser, giant trailie, etc), the rear brake does good in a panic stop. If your bike will stoppie first (eg, SV, sportbike), the rear can't add to your braking distance.


Things I will do in the future

a: ALWAYS keep the brake covered in "turbulent flow" conditions. Ideally, always even at freeway speed, but thats uncomfortable.

b: Watch my follow distance, and PAY ATTENTION DAMNIT.


Other thoughts?

 

[cold100onhw1]

I would say ALWAYS COVER THE BRAKES, all the time.

 

[Dove]

Nick -
I could've told you that SV does stoppies - you didn't have to prove it for yourself!

1. I've covered my front brake every single time I've ever sat on a motorcycle. I actually remember thinking to myself the very first time I sat on one and took off - "Gee, it's sorta uncomfortable to cover this brake but - after a couple thousand miles, I'll be completely used to it and it's something I should JUST DO."

No real reason not to cover it and no reason why you can't retrain yourself to cover that front brake whether you're going down an empty street at 5mph or down the hwy at 90mph.

2. I was riding along behind a stranger on a DRZ on 80 a few weeks ago. I was about 45 feet behind this person and was just observing how they were riding along. This person was riding approx. 5 ft. behind an SUV in the fast lane. You and I both know damn well that this person couldn't see anything in front of that SUV. From my vantage point 45 feet behind, I could see the SUV/car ahead of it/and every single vehicle for as long as my eyes could see. This allowed me the opportunity to see someone in my lane braking way in advance of the SUV slamming it's brakes on. The DRZ would only be able to react to the SUV's braking rather than predict it.

I'm not perfect and I don't always give enough of a cushion but there is no advantage to following closely and there are TONS of advantages to allowing yourself a little extra room (not to mention it allows the vehicle(s) behind you the ability to see you stop and not run you over when you're doing your stoppie displays on the hwy).

3. Sounds like you were just a bit off your "game" this morning - maybe your cruddy ride actually started before you got on the bike this morning?

Self-reflection is great, kudos to you for keeping the bike upright and yourself in one piece. As always - take my thoughts with a grain of salt and keep that SV pretty and rubber side down.

- Chris

 

[nweaver]

I knew it COULD do a stoppie, it was just a shock that it DID do a stoppie. And in many ways thats how I know I F@#)(*#ed up, I actually used ALL of the bikes reserve to stop.

I try to make it a point to NEVER have to reach the limit, because once you reach the limit of something, bad things happen easily. Its also why I'm treating this in many ways like I DID crash: what did I do wrong.

The early morning part may have contributed, but I was awake for an hour before, had my morning coffie, had breakfast. But it is getting to the end of the week and I do get more fatigued near/at the end of the week.

 

[jrbruin]

About two weeks ago, I was riding with a friend of mine (he was on an sv650) and witnessed nearly the same thing happen except my buddy wasn't lucky enough to stoppy. I think he realized too late that he was in a bad spot and hit the front brake too hard, locked up the front and went down. Luckily, by the time the front end locked up, he was going nearly 0. But he did scratch the bumper of the car in front of him and his poor bike tasted pavement. Fortunately, nobody was hurt and only minimal damage to bike and car. Good for you for not panicking and applying the brake in a controlled manner!

 

[aszrael1266]

Thats how i had my acident. I like to keep a nice gap from the car infront of me in traffic and an SUV jumped into the gap then slamed on its break. I was doing about 15-20 mph when it happened and grabed a hald full of front break the bike lifted right up. By the time I figured out what was going on I started to lay off the breaks but the back end was up to high and the bike came to just about a full stop with the rear tire at 12 then the bike just fell to the side. Glad to hear you didn't go down or anything.

 

[erok18]

i dont know if this is right, its just what i do.

when im in that type of traffic, i put myself in a position to see further down whether its to the left of the lane or to the right. i just keep an eye out for motos behind in case theyre sharing and need to get by. but yeah, this way i can see if cars ahead are braking and if they are, i can ease off the gas to create more space so by the time the brake lights reach the car in front of me, theres plenty of room for me to slow down too.

also, if i have to brake harder for whatever reason, im in a position to run out of space into the middle, rather than into the trunk of the car in front of me.

again, not sure if this is right. maybe you guys can provide a little insight.

 

[nweaver]

Well, this case middle is where I wanted to be. To the right, its too easy for someone to merge into me, and in this stretch the left shoulder is, ohh, 6 inches between paint and concrete (I was in the #1 lane).

I really wasn't looking far enough down the road however, that was clear.

 

[snowface]

great report. i was riding through that same crud this morning, really unpredictable crap out there.

i too find myself trailing too close sometimes. getting comfy in that betweener stage of riding, and lane-sharing.

and the only way my bike is doing a stoppie is if it hits something... :| ...can't let that happen.

 

[GhostRider]

"Gee, it's sorta uncomfortable to cover this brake but - after a couple thousand miles, I'll be completely used to it and it's something I should JUST DO."

covering brakes == GOOD!!

if it's uncomfortable, you might want to think about adjusting the levers.

I always ride with the brake covered, and i dont think it is at all uncomfortable.

 

[nweaver]

On the "ALWAYS COVER" ride home and ride into work today, I found that its better if I have the brake lever set on in-maximum or just before maximum. It helps, and I think I'll get used to it in a couple of days.

However, with in-maximum, at a stop, I can pull the brake lever in enough that it will almost touch the bar, so I really want to replace the lines with SS lines to firm up the feel. (its on the "to get done" list bigtime, now)

 

[Dove]

covering brakes == GOOD!!

if it's uncomfortable, you might want to think about adjusting the levers.

I always ride with the brake covered, and i dont think it is at all uncomfortable.

To change a habit for those who don't already do this - it WILL be a tad uncomfortable for the first few times, I was simply trying to illustrate how it's well worth the slight discomfort (read - change of habit, not lever distance from throttle.)

Carry on...:teeth

 

[rritterson]

I was on the SV. Traffic on 80 was heavy, in the "turbulent flow" mode: 50 MPH to 0 to 50 MPH.

Those are the absolute worst traffic conditions. Even if you don't crash into the person in front of you, you have no idea if the person behind you is going to ram you in the butt because THEY aren't paying attention.

And every time traffic speeds up again, it feels like it's going to just stay smooth for the duration, so you don't feel like jogging along at a constant 30mph.

 

[slydrite]

dood, this is not the "Near Crash Analysis" forum....

get with the program and start crashing already if you're post here....

:sheesh

 

[scalvert]

Those traffic conditions are about the worst possible. I get hyper paranoid in that shit. Nice work responding to the emergency successfully, and nice work realizing the contributing factors.

I've specifically chosen NOT to cover the brake 100%. I find my throttle control is better with full hand on the grip. On the street I cover the brake whenever the risk of needing a quick stop is elevated, including always while splitting. The rest of the time though I like the extra control of a full grip.

 

[nweaver]

slyderite: HAHA...

But I posted for a serious reason. There have been two incidents, this and a early time when I crossed the double line, that I've treated in my mind as full-on crashes: I F@#)(*ed up badly, but nothing bad happened. We need to learn from the almost crashes, not just the crashes.

(Anyway, I have a no crashing allowed policy. If I crashed, I'd have to see about getting a used Prius with carpool stickers. Ick)

 

[xmasons]

Something that may help is to not focus on the bumper. You're limiting your escape route if you become target fixated on that bumper. Instead, aim either to the right or left of the bumper. If you need to - and only if you need to - you have an extra margin of error to avoid hitting the vehicle in front of you. This will also potentially keep you from getting rear-ended as well.

There are some potential negatives though, as you may be occupying a space that someone else wants too. This could be from another vehicle behind you (another motorcycle lanesharing or a vehicle reacting to the sudden decrease in speed) or from a vehicle in the other lane(s). Giving the risk management involved, I use this method for the moments of, "Dear jebus! Why is that vehicle suddenly stopping?!"

 

[Ironbutt]

I F*ed up. I didn't crash, but I came within about 3 feet of doing so, so it needs a proper writeup.

I was on the SV. Traffic on 80 was heavy, in the "turbulent flow" mode: 50 MPH to 0 to 50 MPH. I'd been through a couple stop-start events that it was obviously a pattern. I was about a mile from the start of the carpool lane at this point.


I made two major mistakes in these conditions, and one minor:

a: I let my follow distance decrease (a common symptom, people do this all the time under these conditions, when really you want to INCREASE your following distance)

b: My mind was wandering more than it should.

c: I should have left home 10 minutes earlier, that would have spared me much of the cruddy traffic.

This is the root cause of what is to follow.


The pickup truck in front of me brakes as the traffic goes to 0 again. I start braking at my normal rate.

At this point, I realize that the truck seems to be coming towards me awfully fast. Squeeze more, squeeze harder...

I feel the rear end lift as I end up stopped, and at full stop feel the rear end go smacking back down into the ground. It probably only went up about 6", but felt like a lot more. About 1 yard from the bumper in front of me. 36 inches separating me between "Pucker moment" and "OOOWWWCHHHHH".


Things I did RIGHT:

a: I did not panic even as I felt the back end lift. Panic afterwards, not before.

b: I trusted the bike and the front end. Squeeze and let it do what its supposed to do. I always trust my bikes.

c: I've got Pilot Powers. Don't skimp on tires.


Things I THINK helped:

a: I didn't bother with the rear brake. The rear locks this thing up in a hot second, and rear brake on a stoppie will lose you a gyroscope keeping you straight. If your front end will lock first (eg, a cruiser, giant trailie, etc), the rear brake does good in a panic stop. If your bike will stoppie first (eg, SV, sportbike), the rear can't add to your braking distance.


Things I will do in the future

a: ALWAYS keep the brake covered in "turbulent flow" conditions. Ideally, always even at freeway speed, but thats uncomfortable.

b: Watch my follow distance, and PAY ATTENTION DAMNIT.


Other thoughts?

My 2 cents? This is somthing I think about all the time.

I think you should not ride like your driving a car, if traffic stops, GO AROUND THEM. Be more agressive looking for a way out, If traffic is doing the slinky thing, don't get yourself lined up directly behind a car.

We're allowed to lane share because we're vunerable harmless little motorcyclists.

 

[stretch]

[
a: I didn't bother with the rear brake. The rear locks this thing up in a hot second, and rear brake on a stoppie will lose you a gyroscope keeping you straight. If your front end will lock first (eg, a cruiser, giant trailie, etc), the rear brake does good in a panic stop. If your bike will stoppie first (eg, SV, sportbike), the rear can't add to your braking distance.

Guys, sorry for this dumb question but explain it to me:
Never rear brake under hard braking conditions? I got to experience the "mini stoppie" the other day while almost getting clipped but fortunately I wasn't going very fast to begin with.

 

[nweaver]

The reason why I say this (note I may be wrong. Warning, I MAY BE WRONG!)

The rear brake on an SV adds nothing in maximum braking in the dry, because the rear end will lift before the front wheel locks (assuming you buy good tires. Me, I like Pilot Powers), and a wheel off the ground adds no braking ability.

Yet if you are on the rear brake when a mini-stoppie or stoppie DOES happen, the rear wheel will stop. A motorcycle stays up mostly due to two gyroscopes: the front wheel and rear wheel. If you are in a stoppie and the rear wheel stops moving, the bike is going to want to flop to the left or right along the steering head, as the main gyroscope which wants to keep the rear in line with the front will no longer be spinning. Owch.

However, in the wet, the rear can help (because its before you stoppie the front would wash out). It can also be useful to stabilize a bike going into a turn (trail braking).