Motorcycle Industry roundtable Part 2

[VicTim]

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-motorcycle-summit-20171214-story.html

It looks like the trouble in the motorcycle industry may be worse than we thought. The conclusions from the round table motorcycle industry discussion as brought about by Robert Panda former Indian Motorcycle executive is in the above link.

As a side note I just received a 2017 motorcycle owner experience study from the Motorcycle Industry Council. The survey is 8 pages and consists of 78 questions. It also came with a dollar bill:cool. This study and the current NY times article is what prompted this thread.

So will the industry survive as it is or will things continue to shrink as the boomers (me included) die off.

 

[Schnellbandit]

Linked site has a pay wall.

When was the last time you say an ad on TV for motorcycles? Do they think word of mouth is enough?

Hoping FLO standing next to a bike in some Progressive Insurance as or some Gecko riding a bike in a Geico ad isn't gonna do it.

Problem is the motorcycle industry has been chasing HP and speed. Slowly, its realizing that the great pot of potential riders are getting older yet they still pump out 600-700 pound sport tourers and such. Then, the newer riders have little more than also ran look alikes in the 250-650 cc range and most look like plastic coated transformers. The alternatives all have the baggage of their ancestors quirky maintenance and worrisome warranties or price tags to match the latest bitcoin prices.

After so many decades, where are the truly adjustable ergos, the colors other than some blaze hue or black? Where are the bikes that can run thousands of miles before dragging it in for some hundreds of dollars 600 mile check for unsuspecting buyers?

None of it needs to be that way. Too many cookie cutter bikes, either you get some sport bike, an adv looking thing or a naked and in those categories, most look all the same and still sell service like its 1975.

 

[DataDan]

For more info see this post. It links to a page with links to the group's documents. The first one, GAS Report #1 Final, is a summary of findings.

 

[OaklandF4i]

Its not rocket science...... and the report hit on what I have been saying for over a decade (or at least one of the items in the report). Younger folks cannot afford to ride, period. Lower middle class rural families cant afford dirtbikes for the kids to ride as a family. Those two groups alone were some of the biggest contributors to the explosion of the motorcyclists in the late 60's, 70's, and early 80's. Its what brought me and many of my friends into the motorcycling fold.

I'm tired of hearing the argument that adjusted for inflation bikes arent more expensive. They are for those groups. Real wages for those two groups have not kept pace with inflation.

Build a motorcycle that can be sold for what a young person can make in three months, make it cool and acceptable to ride them, and perhaps even build a racing series around the bikes.... be it dirt, street, track, or cafe bikes.

 

[NoobCorpse]

Its not rocket science...... and the report hit on what I have been saying for over a decade (or at least one of the items in the report). Younger folks cannot afford to ride, period. Lower middle class rural families cant afford dirtbikes for the kids to ride as a family. Those two groups alone were some of the biggest contributors to the explosion of the motorcyclists in the late 60's, 70's, and early 80's. Its what brought me and many of my friends into the motorcycling fold.

I'm tired of hearing the argument that adjusted for inflation bikes arent more expensive. They are for those groups. Real wages for those two groups have not kept pace with inflation.

Build a motorcycle that can be sold for what a young person can make in three months, make it cool and acceptable to ride them, and perhaps even build a racing series around the bikes.... be it dirt, street, track, or cafe bikes.

Cheap bikes aren't the problem. Socializing motorcycles as viable transportation in this day and age is. I'm sure somebody somewhere involved with this has gone out and done research on the late teens/early 20s demographic and said "What would it take you to look into buying a motorcycle instead of a car", and probably more than half of the answers were "Nothing, it's too dangerous" or something.

There's also a growing segment of the kids coming of age who have no interest in driving, owning a car, etc - uber / lyft is more convenient and can sometimes be cheaper.

So - how do you change the narrative to make motorcycles enticing as a viable and convenient form of transportation, in the face of deadly distracted drivers, more traffic on the roads than ever before, more people blatantly, willfully ignoring traffic signals / signs to get where they're going, or 'making up their own driving rules', a dangerously high rise in tempers and incidents of road rage, and no end in sight to any of it?


Also - I don't think affordability of dirt biking is an issue, I think the issue is it's not socialized as a normal / mainstream activity for kids these days. Maybe in SoCal in the 70s/80s in the heyday of motocross, but certainly not today. I know many friends with children, and the moms don't even hesitate with a 'no way' if the subject of going to a kid's dirt bike school is broached. Who knows, maybe in 18 years the sport will be booming again, once all these kids from the nerf generation grow up and want to rebel a bit.

 

[Mccookers]

I agree with everybody's comments, but no real good answers. Fuel prices do not help.

My answer: Indoctrinate the youth as young a possible, maybe marketing through movies and/or TV series (with bikes) It is time for the big 4 companies start pitching the "lifestyle" with lots of events and test rides. This would continue with sponsored events and discounts and produce a "game changer" model bike. The UJM of days past was always the Honda 750. Honda will need to reinvent the perfect mid-size, well rounded, kick-ass 500cc's or close.

 

[day004]

Build a motorcycle that can be sold for what a young person can make in three months, make it cool and acceptable to ride them, and perhaps even build a racing series around the bikes.... be it dirt, street, track, or cafe bikes.

That's what the Chinese are doing. But will those middle americans buy a quality affordable moto built in China?

 

[StaggerLee]

Interesting article. As for converting non-riders, I have found it to be near impossible among my friends. They have young kids, mortgages, and the risk/reward ratio doesn't compute for them. I have a buddy I ride dirt with, but he would never consider the street.

Hell, I got on a bike just by chance, and feel lucky I did. Ive spent most of my life chasing newer and faster cars, which now seems like a complete waste of resources.

Auto manufacturers are veterans when it comes to selling on passion. Motorcycle manufacturers need to start telling compelling stories about what motorcycling does for the rider (and his or her friends), and ignite passion for new experiences. Honda had some good ads earlier this year, but they were limited to motorcycle sites where (mainly) only current riders would see them.

 

[KrustyKruser]

I agree with everybody's comments, but no real good answers. Fuel prices do not help.

My answer: Indoctrinate the youth as young a possible, maybe marketing through movies and/or TV series (with bikes) .....

Yes! Bring back Superbike Family!! Lol

 

[bpw]

Lot's of people are moving back to the cities. Storing a dirt or track bike plus the truck or trailer needed to take it to the riding area (several hours away) is pretty tough if you live in an urban area. Lot easier to buy a mountain bike and store it in your bedroom, and you can ride it nearby.

This makes recreational riding a hard sell, and utilitarian riding isn't much more attractive once you consider a moto costs as much or more to run than a car.

 

[NoobCorpse]

Auto manufacturers are veterans when it comes to selling on passion. Motorcycle manufacturers need to start telling compelling stories about what motorcycling does for the rider (and his or her friends), and ignite passion for new experiences. Honda had some good ads earlier this year, but they were limited to motorcycle sites where (mainly) only current riders would see them.

Very good point - this is where I personally feel that the docu-movie "Why We Ride" failed miserably: it was an echo chamber. If you are a rider, you watched the movie and agreed with the sentiments, but many non-riders' reviews of it were unimpressive. On Any Sunday II, Dust to Glory (and Dust 2 Glory, but haven't seen it yet) are fringe movies and geared more towards the enthusiast / racing fans crowd than a "welcome to the sport" tone that the original On Any Sunday possessed.

Also - where in the FUCK are the celebrity endorsements or lifestyle callouts? Harrison Ford has been reported to be a BMW GS rider and seen up at the Rock Store and a friendly-as-hell rider, Jay Leno too. Brad Pitt rides, and got Angelina on a F650 BMW too.
Tom Cruise's advocacy for Triumph in most of his movies, and the cool S1000RR chase scene in the last MI movie was nice, but he never comes out and speaks openly about bikes in the press (that I can see, anyway), or advocates motorcycle safety or awareness, which would help, maybe?
Matt LeBlanc's feature on the new Top Gear where he rode a Panigale in one of the features was neat, and he'd be a good pro-motorcycle lifestyle advocate also.
Keanu Reeves is putting his money where his mouth is for his moto company, but it fits more in the custom / cruiser market than average street enthusiast / hipster bike.
Steve McQueen's presence of cool in On Any Sunday was a huge help, so where is that equivalent today? Dana Brown's got my vote to make the docu-drama featurette for this kind of thing.

When's the last time you had a non-motorcyclist friend come up and talk about a moto in a movie, or something their favorite star was seen riding, or a cool youtube vid (that isn't a crash or a road rage incident)?

 

[Ocho]

I personally would never advocate for motorcycles. The risk is too great. Everyone has to get to it by their own accord.

 

[bpw]

I personally would never advocate for motorcycles. The risk is too great. Everyone has to get to it by their own accord.

I am in this camp as well, if a friend wants to ride I help, but I never really encourage someone who isn't interested. Moto riding is dangerous enough that you have to really like it to make it worthwhile.

When it comes down to it, I am not really sure I care that much about the moto industry shrinking or why I should really care. I am not interested in watching racing, and there are plenty of wonderful bikes around to chose from.

 

[DataDan]

I personally would never advocate for motorcycles. The risk is too great. Everyone has to get to it by their own accord.

I am in this camp as well, if a friend wants to ride I help, but I never really encourage someone who isn't interested. Moto riding is dangerous enough that you have to really like it to make it worthwhile.

As I said in the other thread, a showdown is coming within the sport. On one side are those who love motorcycling and want it to remain healthy so others can enjoy it as they do. On the other side are those who think it's too risky to be promoted. Predictably, the latter group doesn't take the obvious step of excluding themselves.

When it comes down to it, I am not really sure I care that much about the moto industry shrinking or why I should really care. I am not interested in watching racing, and there are plenty of wonderful bikes around to chose from.

Got it. You got yours. Fuck the next generation. :thumbup

 

[bpw]

As I said in the other thread, a showdown is coming within the sport. On one side are those who love motorcycling and want it to remain healthy so others can enjoy it as they do. On the other side are those who think it's too risky to be promoted. Predictably, the latter group doesn't take the obvious step of excluding themselves.


Got it. You got yours. Fuck the next generation. :thumbup

Not at all, of the various sports I participate in, those with small numbers of members are some of my favorites. Bigger and more popular isn't always better. I love riding, and help those who are interested get started, but I also harbor no delusions about there being lots of other fun stuff to do and expecting the recreational moto industry not to shrink as a result of that competition is silly.

Moto riding (especially street) is risky, and not taking a long hard look at personal risk/reward of riding is silly. I still ride but I am well aware of the risks I am taking, the day it no longer feels worth it will be the day I stop.

I think one major issue with street riding is it is a low energy, non-athletic, not really that difficult hobby that still has pretty high risk. Many of the people who would be attracted to bikes end up doing other activities that provide more challenge and require fitness but still have lower risk. A lot of my climbing/surfing/paragliding friends look at motos and see something pretty boring.

Track and dirt riding are obviously different, but also present a separate set of challenges to participation.

 

[bpw]

On a side note, calling the round-table initiative "Give a Shift" is retarded. Perfect name to approach non-riders (especially the moms with little kids they feel are so important to grow the sport) and governments with while trying to change the image of motorcyclists. Might as well paste a couple umbrella girl pictures on the front page while they are at it.

 

[MysterYvil]

Not offering test rides is a hurdle for a lot of new riders. Many don't want to spend thousands of dollars buying a moto that is essentially sight-unseen.

Add in the cost of gear. Factor in that social media amply supplies examples of how many motos are stolen, how many riders are injured or killed. For that matter when was the last time anyone commuted and didn't hear about a moto wreck on the radio or see one in real life?

 

[fubar929]

The motorcycle industry these days is absolutely hilarious! Sometimes it seems like manufacturers and dealers are actually trying to drive business away: no test rides, short warranties, backlogged service departments, salesman who don't know about their products, crappy financing rates, no transportation alternatives when your bike is in for service, no shop-sponsored rides, etc.

Not sure what you could do to make motorcycle buying and ownership any less attractive than it already is...

 

[Surj]

On a side note, calling the round-table initiative "Give a Shift" is retarded. Perfect name to approach non-riders (especially the moms with little kids they feel are so important to grow the sport) and governments with while trying to change the image of motorcyclists. Might as well paste a couple umbrella girl pictures on the front page while they are at it.

Seriously? What are you, some kind of Quaker?

Even better, you posted this on BARF, which has had significant influence despite its name. :laughing

 

[bpw]

Seriously? What are you, some kind of Quaker?

Even better, you posted this on BARF, which has had significant influence despite its name. :laughing

It doesn't bother me, but it doesn't really make you think "Now here is a bunch of serious professionals" It doesn't even really make sense beyond the stupid pun someone thought sounded funny.

Sure is a long ways from "The nicest people on a Honda"