More neat Moto racing technology

[scootergmc]

I know most of you won't care, but Alpinestars released their data from the inflatable suits of Quart/Dovi at Silverstone. It's crazy how "smart" these suits can be...

https://www.gpone.com/en/2019/09/04...-accident-how-the-airbag-saved-dovizioso.html

 

[clutchslip]

This inspired me to look at the air-tech system, again. I wish A*s would discount a suit, if you buy the air tech and compatible leather. The combo is a little steep for a rack suit, in my crash-worthy opinion.

 

[Biga]

WOW!!! that's really interesting to know... thanks for sharing!
I wish I could afford one :teeth

 

[plaid]

I'm not as dumb as I look so, thank you. If you have more, it would be appreciated. Awkwardness in the diction on the article can be attributed to the fact that author Paolo Scalera's native language is not Cincinnati.

photos from the above GPone article, assiduously cold linked

All of which makes me wonder why 6D helmets aren't mandatory across the board.
Yes, I know why, but it makes my brain hurt.

 

[Gravisman]

So they describe the bag as not inflating when Dovi hits Quatararo, but only when he’s in the air coming down. What I’d like to know is do the bags inflate on a standard low-side slide? I think I’d actually be more inclined to buy one if the answer is “no”. I don’t like the idea of a low-side automatically costing me $600 in airbag re-packing plus whatever wait time to get my suit back, but if it’s smart enough to only inflate when I’m thrown into the air, then I’m more sold.

 

[FXCLM5]

So they describe the bag as not inflating when Dovi hits Quatararo, but only when he’s in the air coming down. What I’d like to know is do the bags inflate on a standard low-side slide? I think I’d actually be more inclined to buy one if the answer is “no”. I don’t like the idea of a low-side automatically costing me $600 in airbag re-packing plus whatever wait time to get my suit back, but if it’s smart enough to only inflate when I’m thrown into the air, then I’m more sold.

um you can still tumble/roll from a lowside so why would you not want it to activate?

amazing safety stuff finally trickling down to the street, i recall they were testing these late 2000's now 10 years later we can buy them :thumbup

 

[Gravisman]

um you can still tumble/roll from a lowside so why would you not want it to activate?

amazing safety stuff finally trickling down to the street, i recall they were testing these late 2000's now 10 years later we can buy them :thumbup

Don’t feel like I need an airbag for a little tumbling. The tumbles I’ve had thus far have produced zero injuries, and I’d expect if they did, they’d be of the type where a wrist or shoulder gets bent the wrong way. Airbags help diffuse impact, but they won’t help with those issues. Rolling on the ground produces a bunch of low-impact collisions with the ground, not high-impact collisions which is what I would need an airbag for.

The main risk on a low side where I’d want an airbag is if I run into a wall. Maybe I’m crazy, but I guess I feel ok accepting that risk in exchange for not automatically being out several hundred dollars before bike repairs on a simple low-side.

 

[afm199]

um you can still tumble/roll from a lowside so why would you not want it to activate?

amazing safety stuff finally trickling down to the street, i recall they were testing these late 2000's now 10 years later we can buy them :thumbup

I guess it's a matter of money. It is for me. I've never been hurt in a lowside, ( think MM93), but have been in a high side. My lowsides have all been big exciting slides and hop up. I really don't think I want to pay $500 for the privilege of a 20 mph low side slide.

 

[FXCLM5]

U guys are a lil crazy, I'll live with the Golden rule that all crashes are not equal, 58 lowsided and

 

[stangmx13]

the software decides based on accelerations and other sensed data. it will make a better decision than your random guess about the "type" of crash. if it inflates, it was a good idea.

 

[Gravisman]

the software decides based on accelerations and other sensed data. it will make a better decision than your random guess about the "type" of crash. if it inflates, it was a good idea.

If that’s really true, then awesome. I haven’t been able to find any information anywhere to indicate that the bag would *not* inflate on a simple low side. All they say is “there’s an algorithm” and they don’t inflate under 30 MPH, but their language seems to imply they’re expected to inflate on any and all crashes above 30 MPH.

 

[stangmx13]

from what ive seen and read, the airbag manufacturers put in a ton of effort on when to NOT inflate. earlier generations had issues with inflation during almost-crashes and off-bike actions. its bad look on TV when your rider loses a race because his airbag inflated from a little bucking. ive even been gifted a free pass in an MA race due to unnecessary inflation of an airbag (not A* or Dainese). its also not hard to find crashes by GP and WSBK pros where their airbag didn't inflate.

I really doubt we'll ever find more info than "theres an algorithm". given that this tech is still very new, any more detailed info is IP that needs to be protected. plus, imagine the internet backlash if they said "the airbag inflates for any acceleration >3G". every armchair quarterback would have a worthless opinion. that wouldn't be productive for anyone :laughing. I also doubt their algorithm is simple enough to be understood by most people without a STEM degree. it wouldn't have taken a decade to develop if it was that simple.

 

[scootergmc]

U guys are a lil crazy, I'll live with the Golden rule that all crashes are not equal, 58 lowsided and

That's a non comparison. 58 was hanging on for all he could before his neck was snapped by Rossi's front wheel. No suit was going to save him.

 

[Gravisman]

from what ive seen and read, the airbag manufacturers put in a ton of effort on when to NOT inflate. earlier generations had issues with inflation during almost-crashes and off-bike actions. its bad look on TV when your rider loses a race because his airbag inflated from a little bucking. ive even been gifted a free pass in an MA race due to unnecessary inflation of an airbag (not A* or Dainese). its also not hard to find crashes by GP and WSBK pros where their airbag didn't inflate.

I really doubt we'll ever find more info than "theres an algorithm". given that this tech is still very new, any more detailed info is IP that needs to be protected. plus, imagine the internet backlash if they said "the airbag inflates for any acceleration >3G". every armchair quarterback would have a worthless opinion. that wouldn't be productive for anyone :laughing. I also doubt their algorithm is simple enough to be understood by most people without a STEM degree. it wouldn't have taken a decade to develop if it was that simple.

I don’t need them to explain the details of how the algorithm works. Just would at least be nice to tell me what it’s trying to do. Like does the algorithm try to avoid inflating in a low-side? If they could tell me that, I’d be happy. I actually sent a Alpinestars, so we’ll see if I get a response.

 

[FourThreeSix]

I don’t need them to explain the details of how the algorithm works. Just would at least be nice to tell me what it’s trying to do. Like does the algorithm try to avoid inflating in a low-side? If they could tell me that, I’d be happy. I actually sent a Alpinestars, so we’ll see if I get a response.

I tucked the front in T3 at Thunderhill. Simple low-side. Probably 60MP-ish. The bag deployed. Didn't cost me $600 to repack it since you get 2 deployments. I think it's roughly $100 to recharge.

 

[Gravisman]

I ended up getting a response from Alpinestars sales that I think answers my question:

it's extremely unlikely the vest wouldn’t deploy in any type of crash including lowsides (so long as you're moving faster than 30kph in the Race algorithm)

So, there ya go.

 

[stangmx13]

I think it didnt answer your question(s) at all. there was no mention of intent for their algorithm.

I read that as "its unlikely you won't be subject to accelerations that will deploy the vest in any type of crash".

 

[berth]

it didnt answer your question(s) at all. there was no mention of intent for their algorithm.

The intent of the algorithm is to be as aggressive as it can in keeping you safe without being annoying and inflating because you forgot to turn it off and you dropping it on a chair, while keeping them out of a lawsuit because it didn't go off when "it should have".

I would expect it to go off on anything that is more aggressive than a bit of a tank slapper. I'm pretty sure anything that has you off the bike, and/or on the pavement is considered a "crash".

The amazing thing about this incident is how it decided to NOT react when the rider was separated from the bike, but, rather, later in the sequence. It's not like it didn't know they rider was flying, but it also probably figured "well, if he's flying, he's got to land, so may as well wait a teeny bit and deploy closer to that".

it's also why they have "race" systems and "street" systems, and the environments are different.

But in the end, the simple truth is that the system can detect and react in microseconds. Consider the $100 insurance. How many times does the system have to go off false positive to earn its keep when it does fire to save your bacon.

 

[FXCLM5]

Lol they go off when go riders punch the air celebrating...... Not sure if it was dainese or a*

 

[FXCLM5]

That's a non comparison. 58 was hanging on for all he could before his neck was snapped by Rossi's front wheel. No suit was going to save him.

Lol doesn't that feed my theory of not all crashes are the same, also I think it was c Edwards wheel not Rossi's