Misconception of vaccinations

Robert R1

Robert R1

Well-known member
A few weeks ago, the Imperial College of London opened up vaccine trials in the UK. As we’re limited in what we can do to help others based on our professions, my wife and I figured participating in the trials is a good way to give back. She was accepted and I was not (womp womp). It’s a 6month cycle in a double-blind setup meaning neither her nor the medical staff engaging her know which test group she is in. After 6months at the conclusion of the sampling, she will know.

During that time, she has an online portal for checking in, providing feedback and emergency contact info in case of complications throughout the trial.
We were happy to be part of the overall ecosystem in helping move forward in the smallest of ways. The interesting thing happened when she started telling people. There were a lot of gasps and “why would you do this!? You have a family!” type of responses. These are people we have known for decades so we are not talking about the random Facebook crew.

When probing deeper why they had these concerns? the general consensus was a great misunderstanding that she’s voluntarily having the full payload of the virus being injected into her and along with the medicine to see if it’ll work. Worst yet was that she would be then exposed to Covid19 at a later date to confirm the effectiveness. “I just hope you don’t give it to the kids!” etc.. We were pretty taken back by this because none of these people are anti vaxxers and all of them, to our knowledge, have grown up with the recommended set of immunizations.

This got me thinking. How much misconception is out there regarding what a vaccine is? How much of this viewpoint is hardened and then perpetuated by anti vaxxers and other conspiracy minded folk?

Maybe a side effect of C19 will be a better understanding of pandemics, viruses, vaccination, and the cycles involved by the general public? I’m not sure but I do know that if you have questions about what a vaccination is, does, please ask. We’re lucky to have Snaggy, Dr Slo here. Others might not be so maybe we can help them by opening the dialogue and see what you get back?

Here’s her schedule of testing:
- Pre screening/Initial assessment with blood, urine and other vitals for testing
- Another vital and blood test prior to being given vaccination on that day. 1 hr observation and release
- 8 days of temp check reported online along with any symptoms (chills and body aches the first night in her case)
- 1 month post vaccine blood test to check for anti body levels and effectiveness
- 6 month as above and being informed of test group and outcome
- 1 yr (optional) blood test
 
Last edited:
budman

budman

General Menace
Staff member
Man... that is most honorable of you guys.

It will be a trippy experience I bet. I understand why people would say why would you do this. Totally.

The unknown in it is large and the unknown scares a lot of people.

You guys are like Kit Carson.. wondering into the unknown, but knowing there is a solid end goal.

Best wishes.
 
Butch

Butch

poseur
Staff member
Thank you and the wife.
If you care to share the experience it can be a learning experience for us all.
 
rodr

rodr

Well-known member
I guess a lot of people would understandably think that testing a vaccine means giving it to one group and not another, then infecting everyone with the virus and measuring outcomes.

Understood that's not what your wife is participating in, but wouldn't that have to be done at some point?
 
Archimedes

Archimedes

Fire Watcher
And most people think it's relatively easy to develop a vaccine, when in fact it's actually very difficult and time consuming. The chance that we have a real working coronavirus vaccine in the next 12 months is quite slim.
 
Bowling4Bikes

Bowling4Bikes

Steee-riiike!
+1 thank you and the wife for the generosity to your fellow man. I'm also super interested to hear the experience if you don't mind.

chills and body aches...of course not ideal but not out of the ordinary for vaccinations. Were the symptoms tolerable? Did she recover ok from it?
 
Robert R1

Robert R1

Well-known member
The chills and body aches were just the initial immune response as since the payload is non virulent, it was over within a day and she was fine. No issues since then either. I’ll certainly keep things updated but in reality, there’s not much until we learn after the 6month period.

A point I want to clear up is that I don’t see either one of us being brave or daring. Being part of a controlled vaccine trial by a respected org isn’t something people should be all that intimidated by and if something like this pops up in your area, you’re helping your fellow person by signing up.

The pre screening process is rigorous to rule out risk factors and this isn’t a pill where you take it for months and some side effects are going to stick with you. Your body will run it’s course very quickly, they will then extract the anti bodies out of you and hit them against the virus in a lab to determine its effectiveness. Think of yourself as an anti body factory. That’s it.

This risk factor on this is quite low but being able to help science fast track a cure for the masses has great upside. We also need to do a much much better job of informing and providing continued eduction on what vaccines are, their benefits to you and society as a whole.
 
Last edited:
dtrides

dtrides

Well-known member
Me: Awesome! Thanks for looking out for my and others wellbeing in your own small way.:thumbup:gsxrgrl:hail:banana

Anti-voxers: WHAT ARE YOU DOING? THEY ARE INJECTING YOUR WIFE WITH MIND CONTROL DRUGS AND PROBABLY A MICROCHIP FOR TRACKING!!!!!
I AM SURE MY CALLS ARE BEING MONITORED AND I KEEP SEEING A DARK SUV PARKED DOWN THE STREET!
EF-THAT!!!!:flag:sniper:flag:troy:bs:flag.......

DT
 
bojangle

bojangle

FN # 40
Staff member
Archimedes said:
And most people think it's relatively easy to develop a vaccine, when in fact it's actually very difficult and time consuming. The chance that we have a real working coronavirus vaccine in the next 12 months is quite slim.
Click to expand...

I agree.

Robert R1 said:
The chills and body aches were just the initial immune response as since the payload is non virulent, it was over within a day and she was fine. No issues since then either. I’ll certainly keep things updated but in reality, there’s not much until we learn after the 6month period.

A point I want to clear up is that I don’t see either one of us being brave or daring. Being part of a controlled vaccine trial by a respected org isn’t something people should be all that intimidated by and if something like this pops up in your area, you’re helping your fellow person by signing up.

The pre screening process is rigorous to rule out risk factors and this isn’t a pill where you take it for months and some side effects are going to stick with you. Your body will run it’s course very quickly, they will then extract the anti bodies out of you and hit them against the virus in a lab to determine its effectiveness. Think of yourself as an anti body factory. That’s it.

This risk factor on this is quite low but being able to help science fast track a cure for the masses has great upside. We also need to do a much much better job of informing and providing continued eduction on what vaccines are, their benefits to you and society as a whole.
Click to expand...

Nice! :thumbup That's awesome of you guys.

dtrides said:
Me: Awesome! Thanks for looking out for my and others wellbeing in your own small way.:thumbup:gsxrgrl:hail:banana

Anti-voxers: WHAT ARE YOU DOING? THEY ARE INJECTING YOUR WIFE WITH MIND CONTROL DRUGS AND PROBABLY A MICROCHIP FOR TRACKING!!!!!
I AM SURE MY CALLS ARE BEING MONITORED AND I KEEP SEEING A DARK SUV PARKED DOWN THE STREET!
EF-THAT!!!!:flag:sniper:flag:troy:bs:flag.......

DT
Click to expand...

van_in_black.png
 
Bowling4Bikes

Bowling4Bikes

Steee-riiike!
12 months for a vaccine would break all kinds of records. will the coronavirus we see today be the same as we see next winter? so many questions left unanswered.

This is a perfect example of why we still need to stay vigilant with limiting our exposure, in whatever form that needs to take. Thanks to everyone who contributes.
 
Snaggy

Snaggy

Well-known member
rodr said:
I guess a lot of people would understandably think that testing a vaccine means giving it to one group and not another, then infecting everyone with the virus and measuring outcomes.

Understood that's not what your wife is participating in, but wouldn't that have to be done at some point?
Click to expand...

So they wouldn't actually challenge vaccinated humans with virus, not in the US. They can evaluate vaccine effectiveness by testing patient serum for the presence of antibodies that actually prevent virus infection in mice, or a similar assay. There would be some more exotic stuff, like computer modeling the fit between the antibody produced and the virus binding site.

The FDA has a formal approval process for drugs.

Investigational New Drug Application(IND)- This is the manufacturer's proposal and justification

Phase 1- How does it work in a small group of volunteers
Phase 2- What's the right dose, for effectiveness and human tolerance.
Phase 3- Does the product work in a larger group of humans. These studies usually have hundreds or thousands of subjects, including a placebo or control group.
Phase 4- After the drug goes on the shelves, what problems show up.

https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/development-approval-process-cber/vaccine-product-approval-process

The process takes years and $Billions, so a Covid vaccine will be fast tracked through a lot of that, and may get distributed with an EUA, Emergency Use Authorization only. Trump was asked that question by a reporter at a presser, would the vaccine be offered with full approval or just an EUA? A scowl, then the answer, we'll be working toward full approval. Which doesn't answer the question, but the FDA won't sit on a vaccine candidate for very long, they'll vote up or down promptly, forgoing some of the nit-picking.
 
Snaggy

Snaggy

Well-known member
Worth mentioning, there are several options when producing a vaccine.

You can grow the virus in a media such as eggs or cell culture. The culture is then processed so it's as pure as possible from egg products, and the virus is inactivated. This is the most straight forward approach. It's easy and messy, might have some egg in it and viral components you don't want or need.

You can grow a weakened virus, and give that as a vaccine in infectious form. That's a "modified live virus", used in some shingles, polio, and some influenza vaccines for example. The resulting very mild infection can produce very effective immunity. This is trickier to prepare, for one reason, the attenuated virus could still cause significant disease in immunosupressed people.

You can identify a part of a virus that evokes a highly protective antibody, like a spike protein in Covid. You can isolate the gene encoding that protein, and use recombinant genetic processes to produce a bacteria that you can grow by the boatload and produces a pure form of viral antigen by the bucket full. This is called subunit vaccine, and is widely used in human and animal vaccinations.

A more direct approach, so far untested in humans, is to bypass the antigen part altogether. Train your bacteria to produce "messenger" RNA encoding a spike protein antigen. Inject the RNA, and it will be read and the spike protein will be produced by the body. The immune system will respond to it as it would to an injected antigen, producing antibody. That could be very useful for immunosuppressed patients.

Covid vaccines from all the above processes are in development.

There are other techniques, not likely to be used ever again, like the original Hepatitis B vaccine, out of use for 30 years.


https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-exactly-where-were-at-with-vaccines-and-treatments-for-covid-19#Speeding-up-vaccine-development


.
 
Bowling4Bikes

Bowling4Bikes

Steee-riiike!
^thanks Snaggy. I think it's worth it enough to mention that safety/toxicity is a primary goal for phase 1. Got to make sure the drug does not pose an immediate health risk.

Appreciate the info.
 
Archimedes

Archimedes

Fire Watcher
The overall probability of success of an industry sponsored vaccine program is 39.6 percent and for an anti-infective therapeutic is 16.3 percent. And that data is favorably skewed relative to what we're dealing with here. Remember there are no therapies for MERS, SARS, Ebola, Zika and people have been working on those for years.

The thing that gets me is people and the press getting excited about pre-clinical animal model results, as if that has a big impact on success. Every compound that gets into the clinical development process had favorable animal testing or modeling or it wouldn't have even proceeded to the clinic. Animal testing/modeling actually means very little in terms of the probability of successfully developing a compound for humans. What works in a monkey, often does not work in humans.

I think we should all hope for a vaccine and/or therapeutic, but I wouldn't assume even a 50 percent chance of it actually coming to fruition at this point in the process.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top