Master Electricians - Halp!

MtnRacer

MtnRacer

Veterinarian
I have an existing 3 way light switch that I would like to convert to a combo switch/outlet. This is the one I have in mind: http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-5645-...-Grounding/dp/B000U3BULU/ref=cm_cd_al_qh_dp_t

How the fuck do I do this! This is what I've got in the box:

3 way switch wtf.jpg

Here's the diagram for the two potential switch/out configurations.

5645 Switch-Outlet.jpg

Now, I know this will be hard, but pretend I am a complete idiot. The biggest slack jawed, mouth breathing, cross eyed moron you've ever laid eyes on in your entire life.

What color wire goes to what number on which diagram? :toothless

Steve
 
T

teg916

Well-known member
Two configurations are shown. Which one you use will depend on what type of switch your second light switch is. Is your second light switch a 3 way switch, or a regular light switch with 2 wires going to it?
 
Warrior Princess

Warrior Princess

Freedom Equity Group
I am confused :shocker

Do you have one 3way switch or two 3way switches on the system and the additional switch you want to run what is its purpose.
 
moond0ggie

moond0ggie

Well-known member
Do you want the switch to operate the outlet? Like an additional table lamp upstairs that comes on with the ceiling hall light?....be pacific<<<Bowery boys
 
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asthmodeus

asthmodeus

Banned
Go get yourself a multimeter and a book on home wiring like they sell at HD. You can't just go by color- i've seen it done a few different ways, black is usually line in and red from switch to fixture, but i've seen it done like a 240v circuit with black and red both line in...that said, i wire up machines and motors and mess with homes only on occasion. Mostly cause it sucks :laughing
 
bikeama

bikeama

Super Moderator
Staff member
asthmodeus said:
Go get yourself a multimeter and a book on home wiring like they sell at HD. You can't just go by color- i've seen it done a few different ways, black is usually line in and red from switch to fixture, but i've seen it done like a 240v circuit with black and red both line in...that said, i wire up machines and motors and mess with homes only on occasion. Mostly cause it sucks :laughing
Click to expand...

+1 better yet take a class at your local community college. Be very careful with the two line hot wiring. When I bought the house I am in, I had to move a 110v plug, none of the breakers would kill the power to the plug WTH. Had to turn off the main breaker to move the plug.

I had taken the class but could not figure out the problem. Talked to the head electrician where I worked. Some how the person who worked on the house wiring tied two of "the same phase" hots together. So I had two breakers to one plug not good. Had to turn off all the breakers, then turn them on one at a time to find which two breakers were tied together. After that start looking and found the problem in a switch box. Could have been worse if he had connected two different phases the wiring would have been 220v.

If you don't what to educate yourself hire the pro, well worth the money.
 
planegray

planegray

Redwood Original
Staff member
bikeama said:
+1 better yet take a class at your local community college. Be very careful with the two line hot wiring. When I bought the house I am in, I had to move a 110v plug, none of the breakers would kill the power to the plug WTH. Had to turn off the main breaker to move the plug.

I had taken the class but could not figure out the problem. Talked to the head electrician where I worked. Some how the person who worked on the house wiring tied two of "the same phase" hots together. So I had two breakers to one plug not good. Had to turn off all the breakers, then turn them on one at a time to find which two breakers were tied together. After that start looking and found the problem in a switch box. Could have been worse if he had connected two different phases the wiring would have been 220v.

If you don't what to educate yourself hire the pro, well worth the money.
Click to expand...

+1 to this and asthmodeous

Otherwise maybe you need to start courting Ernie....buy him drinks, get some steak for his pup, etc :dunno
 
mean dad

mean dad

Well-known member
If you're just going to add an outlet and keep the 3-way switch, just throw the outlet on the hot side of the switch.
Wire the new switch exactly like the old one.
 
T

teg916

Well-known member
The hot wire(s) go to the black screws. The black wire is the hot wire.
The two gold screws go to your second 3 way switch.
The silver screw is your common wire (white).

Double check everything with a meter before you hook things up. If yoare unsure of what you are doing an electrician is a good investment.
 
afm199

afm199

Well-known member
Steve: Typically switches do just that. They switch a hot wire. Unless the neutral is in the box, you can't install an outlet. According to your diagram it's not. It's common practice to wire a switch box with switched hots, no need to bring a neutral in the box. The neutral will always be white, however, because cables come in two or three colors, the white will also be used as a hot wire in switch applications. A good electrician will have used colored tape on the white to indicate it is a hot wire.

Look at all the wires that enter the box... Do any of them have a white that comes into the box, does not attach to a switch, but splices to other whites? If so, that's probably a working neutral. You will have to do some tests to ascertain that but I won't post up unless this situation exists. The testing is slightly complicated.Post up a couple pics of the box with the switches pulled partly out so I can see all the cables. Homie eats T bone. I prefer Turkey.
 
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afm199

afm199

Well-known member
Typically lighting circuits will be loaded to code max, so if you are planning on using this outlet for anything heavy duty, forget it for two reasons. One, it's probably a 15 amp circuit, and two, When most of the lights are on on that circuit, there's no capacity left. Good for hi fi, no good for heater.
 
MtnRacer

MtnRacer

Veterinarian
Hi Ernie,

Actually yes, there are three Romex sheaths coming into the box. All three have white wires and all three of those wires are joined by a twist on connector with no lead out. I attempted to illustrate this in my diagram by joining the three white lines. Here's a picture of the actual box:

DSC_0538.jpg

I'm planning to run a small, wall mounted PC for looking at service manual PDFs and such when I'm working on the bikes and cars. Less than 5 amps. There are currently 4 Flourescent fixtures on the ciruit, each containing 2x40 watt 4 foot tubes for a total of 8 tubes all together. That should be a little less than 3 Amps, correct? The total load should be under 10 amps so I think I'm safe there.

Steve
 
afm199

afm199

Well-known member
Steve the pic won't come through.

If all three whites come together with no connection to the switches, that is almost certainly a neutral. If you have a tester, test the voltage between a hot and the neutrals. 120 V.

If you're not sure which is hot, test both sides of a switch, one will be hot. Both hot if the switch is in on position.

So if you have 120 volts from a hot to the neutral then you should be good to go. Add one short white from the neutral bundle to the proposed outlet. You can remove one of the single pole switches and install a combo switch/outlet. Verify the hot to the switch and use that to feed the outlet. This should mean not breaking off the tab on that side, the darker color screws. The other side should have one screw for the switch and another for the neutral, not connected.

run a ground wire to the outlet as well, from the bare ground wires.
 
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