Lowside Thunderhill Turn 14

[stangmx13]

in my experience, best to tell her right away and in a nonchalant way. that way u dont make a big deal about it. she might even get used to it. :laughing

 

[Shaggy]

in my experience, best to tell her right away and in a nonchalant way. that way u dont make a big deal about it. she might even get used to it. :laughing

Here’s what I do.... Tell the wifey there is a package arriving and to keep an eye out for it. When she asks what it is, then explain how it was a necessity and how you’re actually saving money. Better to ask for forgiveness than permission!

 

[Smash Allen]

in my experience, best to tell her right away and in a nonchalant way. that way u dont make a big deal about it. she might even get used to it. :laughing

i'm playing it so nonchalant i thought i already told her!?

Here’s what I do.... Tell the wifey there is a package arriving and to keep an eye out for it. When she asks what it is, then explain how it was a necessity and how you’re actually saving money. Better to ask for forgiveness than permission!

that's a good one, and easy with the price of oem bmw parts :laughing

damn quickbooks app gives me away every time

 

[FXCLM5]

Also thanks to afm199 i just throw away turn 14, and focus hard on using all of the track for 15 to pinnit asap for the straight.

A few years back when i did a 2x day school with Keigwins, they walked us up to the track put down a marker on 14 and let all the instructors come by and dragged right over that marker....

I tried to do that, takes too much time/focus for me so i gave it up for now.

 

[afm199]

Also thanks to afm199 i just throw away turn 14, and focus hard on using all of the track for 15 to pinnit asap for the straight.

A few years back when i did a 2x day school with Keigwins, they walked us up to the track put down a marker on 14 and let all the instructors come by and dragged right over that marker....

I tried to do that, takes too much time/focus for me so i gave it up for now.

Well, I do consider T14 a throwaway in the sense that it's a slow corner and you need to take it slow and be patient. Nobody goes flying through it fast. You hit the apex by being patient. T15 is one of the most important corners at Thill because of the longgggg straight after it. So the better your exit, the more speed you will carry there.

 

[stangmx13]

Here’s what I do.... Tell the wifey there is a package arriving and to keep an eye out for it. When she asks what it is, then explain how it was a necessity and how you’re actually saving money. Better to ask for forgiveness than permission!

:laughing

i was talking about telling her about the crash and injury, not about the replacement parts.

 

[Smash Allen]

there wasn't an injury...my shoulder is just sore:laughing

she was out of the country giving a presentation and i didn't want her to worry for a week. hopefully she understands :gsxrgrl

Well, I do consider T14 a throwaway in the sense that it's a slow corner and you need to take it slow and be patient. Nobody goes flying through it fast. You hit the apex by being patient. T15 is one of the most important corners at Thill because of the longgggg straight after it. So the better your exit, the more speed you will carry there.

would you consider t14 an entry corner (decel is longer than accel) considering the back straight behind it? or do you compromise t14 into an exit corner (accel longer than decel) to maximize drive into 15 and front straight?

 

[afm199]

It's an entry corner. T15 is an exit corner.

 

[Smash Allen]

so i had a bit of an epiphany recently

i noticed that i am off the brakes too early in every vehicle i operate...under the assumption that an unloaded tire has more grip available for turning but forgetting the amount of grip lost when a tire is unloaded vs loaded...i'm basically always pushing the front...trailing to apex-ish feels so foreign but i can tell there is more grip now...faster with no wheel slip...this is also why i wasn't getting faster with go karts! the difference a few feet makes!

 

[khill]

so i had a bit of an epiphany recently

i noticed that i am off the brakes too early in every vehicle i operate...under the assumption that an unloaded tire has more grip available for turning but forgetting the amount of grip lost when a tire is unloaded vs loaded...i'm basically always pushing the front...trailing to apex-ish feels so foreign but i can tell there is more grip now...faster with no wheel slip...this is also why i wasn't getting faster with go karts! the difference a few feet makes!

Correct, where you left off your brakes and how you let off the brakes is the key......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6sW5Ee7YhI&t=2s

 

[Smash Allen]

Correct, where you left off your brakes and how you let off the brakes is the key......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6sW5Ee7YhI&t=2s

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the post and for what you are doing to improve our sport:thumbup

Having an example of brake timing is great, if only there was a rear facing green “throttle light”!:laughing

Here is a recent one of you at thunderhill east. That brake light is helpful, is it very sensitive to your lever movement? As soon as the lever moves the light engages? Or is it more pressure based and thus delayed slightly?

A good exercise seems to be following along these videos and duplicating your brake timing and scoring myself per corner. My turn 3 is pretty bad due to my misunderstanding of front grip related to loaded vs unloaded tire combined with an off camber corner.


youtu.be/7L2zeD0bvjs

 

[KazMan]

my experience is that the light will come on a little later than actual brake applied and go off a bit sooner than fully released because there is built in play from lever to switch.

 

[thedub]

...Having an example of brake timing is great, if only there was a rear facing green “throttle light”! :laughing...

You don't need one: it's when the brake light goes off. Ken isn't coasting through the corner with no inputs to the speed controls. As soon as he's off the brake, he's back on the throttle.

 

[stangmx13]

so i had a bit of an epiphany recently

i noticed that i am off the brakes too early in every vehicle i operate...under the assumption that an unloaded tire has more grip available for turning but forgetting the amount of grip lost when a tire is unloaded vs loaded...i'm basically always pushing the front...trailing to apex-ish feels so foreign but i can tell there is more grip now...faster with no wheel slip...this is also why i wasn't getting faster with go karts! the difference a few feet makes!

its pretty awesome how deep u can go on freeway on/off ramps w/ a vanilla compact car. the tires squeal if you are off the brakes. but hold them on just a little bit and the car just rails. :laughing

IMO, this one of the biggest disservices that standard vehicle training, word of mouth, and now forum word-vomit has done for motorcycle track riding. this idea seems to be ingrained into our minds from day 1. the classic traction circle, 100 traction pts, dont brake and lean at the same time, etc etc. its mostly wrong today when u really get into the nuisances of maximizing traction on the track.

 

[khill]

my experience is that the light will come on a little later than actual brake applied and go off a bit sooner than fully released because there is built in play from lever to switch.

We modified the switch to come on just as the lever is engaged.

 

[khill]

You don't need one: it's when the brake light goes off. Ken isn't coasting through the corner with no inputs to the speed controls. As soon as he's off the brake, he's back on the throttle.

Here is one with data....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZZXc7jztQ0

 

[KazMan]

We modified the switch to come on just as the lever is engaged.

:thumbup

 

[Smash Allen]

its pretty awesome how deep u can go on freeway on/off ramps w/ a vanilla compact car. the tires squeal if you are off the brakes. but hold them on just a little bit and the car just rails. :laughing

IMO, this one of the biggest disservices that standard vehicle training, word of mouth, and now forum word-vomit has done for motorcycle track riding. this idea seems to be ingrained into our minds from day 1. the classic traction circle, 100 traction pts, dont brake and lean at the same time, etc etc. its mostly wrong today when u really get into the nuisances of maximizing traction on the track.

can you generalize with a percentage how significant the grip increase is between unloaded and loaded front tires?

i wish i had been listening to ken hill's podcast series from 2009 when i started riding. then i wouldn't have this bad habit to unlearn! i can think of a couple times on the street where i had front end pushes because i was trying to get off the front brake as soon as possible to 'save' grip for turning. i should have just eased off the brake over longer period of time...

good thing this is something i can work on whenever i operate a vehicle and not just the moto.

i thought i knew how to trail brake, turns out i sort of know how to do the first part of tipping in on the brakes. the last part of letting off the brakes from 5%-0% is a skill i do not yet have...more like jumping off from 10%:wow

We modified the switch to come on just as the lever is engaged.

Right on :cool very useful tool!

Here is one with data....


youtu.be/LZZXc7jztQ0

There you go!! Great fun and informational to watch, can only imagine riding a Graves R6 :drool

I wonder what the throttle graph looks like through T7 and T8 with an s1000rr or similar. I'm thinking either 1) full open with a small drop in throttle for direction through T7 and a bigger drop of throttle for direction through T8 or 2) full open with a small drop in throttle for direction through T7 and a bit of brakes for direction through T8

 

[khill]

" full open with a small drop in throttle for direction through T7 and a bit of brakes for direction through T8"

Correct!