Low speed turn question

[Lukich]

I have recently attended the Alameda County sheriff department motorcycle training. It emphasized low speed turns greatly and approached them in the following way - when you turn, you stay away from the breaks. The turn is controlled by gas and clutch only, and as the bike leans into turn, you stay upright to counterbalance it.

Another technique that I learned in another class is to hold down the rear brake and control the rest with clutch and gas. Your body position becomes much less important.

Personally, I find turns where I hold down the rear brake a lot more controlled and comfortable. Is there some specific reason that motorcycle police prefer the other approach? Is it just faster when done right or is it something else?

Thank you,
Luka

 

[Aware]

I have no idea why the police prefer the way you describe. I was taught the way you seem to prefer, and from your descriptions I agree with your sentiment that utilizing the rear brake gives more control.

If you are riding dirt, I think the other method is preferred... ? But i'm no dirt rider.

 

[chrysaetos]

I took the basic course from the Alameda Sheriff Dept about a year ago. Based on the notes I took for tight U-turns on a slope, you're supposed to use the rear brake only to help set/reduce speed while simultaneously feathering the clutch. Then use only the clutch while turning to help control speed.

I would just email the instructors, I think they'd be happy to answer your questions. :thumbup

 

[Lukich]

I took the basic course from the Alameda Sheriff Dept about a year ago. Based on the notes I took for tight U-turns on a slope, you're supposed to use the rear brake only to help set/reduce speed while simultaneously feathering the clutch. Then use only the clutch while turning to help control speed.

I would just email the instructors, I think they'd be happy to answer your questions. :thumbup

On the slope yes, you need to use the rear brake to achieve a turning speed, but on the flat surfaces they told us to stay away from the brakes. Good idea on writing to them, but there's zero contact information on their site. I guess I can just email their administrator and hope she passes the question along.

 

[Smash Allen]

what did the instructor say when you brought this up during class?

rear brake is covered in the advanced course - you can bet your beans they use it when appropriate

 

[Lukich]

what did the instructor say when you brought this up during class?

rear brake is covered in the advanced course - you can bet your beans they use it when appropriate

I wish I had the presence of mind to ask them that question during the class. I didn't

 

[ctwo]

some bikes have linked brakes. when I took the DMV test, I was constantly pounded for going too fast. my bike had a fast idle, so had to use the brake to go slow enough to meet the criteria.

 

[zixaq]

Dragging the rear brake a little bit on tight u-turns is fine. Do what feels best. Counterleaning is absolutely going to make tight turns easier regardless of how you manage your speed, though.

Better clutch control is useful in other ways too, so maybe they're pushing it for that reason? I had trouble at that course as well, as I was unused to using the clutch to control speed. My bike had a super narrow engagement zone, so I never used it. The deputy I asked about this when I took the class told me it was okay to use a little rear brake if I thought I needed to, but also pushed me to learn to work the clutch.

 

[HadesOmega]

I learned from riding dual sports for slow speed maneuvers you use counter balancing and weighing the outside peg. If you still can't get the bike to become stable you can even take your foot off the outside peg. It's works standing or sitting down too.

 

[day004]

Remember that the Police techniques were developed on old H-Ds. Very different dynamics from modern sprotbiles. They are very stable at walking speeds but do have a certain heft to them.

 

[rcgldr]

The main issue with very low speed turn is a tendency for a bike to fall inwards without the rider compensating with corrective inputs, since the bike is moving at a slower than self-stable speed.

I recall taking a DMV riding test on a Norton (this was back in the 1970's), and having to turn around a tight circle staying between an inside and outside line. The DMV was close to home, and I had a permit, so I was able to practice riding on that tight circle. The Norton was nearly at steering lock to do this, so I had to use speed control and braking to maintain balance. Using clutch and rear brake helped with the speed control. Using front brake with the steering near lock would cause the bike to lean inwards, so that could be used to correct if the bike started to fall outwards. I also leaned outwards to get the bike to lean inwards a bit more, which seemed to help a bit. Leaning outwards would probably have helped a bit more if I wasn't up against the steering lock. I spent about 15 to 20 minutes practicing this.

 

[zanshin]

The - shall we say - confused diversity of opinion dredged up by these discussions always reminds me of the regrettable narrowness of experience street-only riding tends to engender.

Without further ado, tight turning by folks who live and breathe tight turning:

http://trialstrainingcenter.com/how-to-ride-motorcycle-trials/basic-turns/

And the deliciously humorous channel from Down Under:

https://youtu.be/ejIN8vJq1Nw

I hope this resolves the question of peg weighting and implicitly underscores the importance of being able to weight pegs, and thus the sheer ridiculousness of “Splat The Cat” motorcycles which would have your feet arrive at your destination 10 mins before the rest of your body.

How’s that peg weighting working out for you, homeskillet:
https://wingstuffblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/monkey-bars.jpg?w=640