Lets talk solar panels & roofs..

[Ducky_Fresh]

Bought a new home and I think I want to buy solar. No solarcity lease bullshit, straight buy. I also want a wall battery that can save it, to subsidize, etc. We have great exposure to sunlight all day, single story ranch style home, and also a pool. So it should be a good fit..

My concern is that the new house might have a roof that also needs to be replaced. Of course there are some new options out there.

Any information or guidance would be much appreciated! Companies, brands, installers, etc.

What to stay away from would also be great.

 

[zphreak]

If you need to replace the roof, check into Tesla solar roof if you want to knock out both at the same time.

Solar is hard to justify with a new home as you have nothing to compare. For me, I'm not ok with a 10 year ROI. I want something less than 5 and closer to 3. I now have a pool so that ROI may change this year.

 

[Morphine]

I bought my panels from Sunrun last year. I saved up a bit of money and chose to go with them. We decided to get 10 panels, 110% of our daily usage, enough for our 4-member family with no electric cars. 10 panels costed us 12k. With all the discounts and tax credits, we paid about 8-9k. We didn't buy the battery array, which probably would've doubled the cost.

They were very professional, from the guy who came to design the system to the installation. All in all, it took about 6 weeks from meeting their sale rep in Costco to have the panels producing power, and not once did we feel any pressure to buy their product. They did all the work from designing to getting city permit.

We talked about our current roof, which has probably 15 years left before needing replacing. Sunrun will come and take the system off when that happens. They'll inspect your roof, and if it needs replacing soon, they'll let you know.

It's a great feeling to turn on the switch and knowing that we produce the energy that we use. A battery array would be even cooler but we don't have the money and didn't want to deal with maintenance that.

 

[stan23]

I bought my panels from Sunrun last year. I saved up a bit of money and chose to go with them. We decided to get 10 panels, 110% of our daily usage, enough for our 4-member family with no electric cars. 10 panels costed us 12k. With all the discounts and tax credits, we paid about 8-9k. We didn't buy the battery array, which probably would've doubled the cost.

They were very professional, from the guy who came to design the system to the installation. All in all, it took about 6 weeks from meeting their sale rep in Costco to have the panels producing power, and not once did we feel any pressure to buy their product. They did all the work from designing to getting city permit.

We talked about our current roof, which has probably 15 years left before needing replacing. Sunrun will come and take the system off when that happens. They'll inspect your roof, and if it needs replacing soon, they'll let you know.

It's a great feeling to turn on the switch and knowing that we produce the energy that we use. A battery array would be even cooler but we don't have the money and didn't want to deal with maintenance that.

That's a great price!

When I was looking last year, I was looking minimum out of pocket around 25K. I decided to just hold off.

If I can get panels that do 110% of our usage for what you paid, i'll do that today.

Only caveat is we do have a plug in car that uses electricity, but that's only like 10 kWh /day.

 

[Ducky_Fresh]

I just ordered my Model 3. Will need/want to factor that in as well.

The issue is we just moved to the Sacramento area and I know we will want to run the AC from 2-7 and those are smack at peak times. Have to imagine there is a fast/clear ROI here..

$300/month is $3600/yr, electric car will probably be $1000/yr. So a $15,000 investment should be reasonable if it completely eliminates those costs.

Need to learn more..

 

[zphreak]

If you're on SMUD you'll be surprised that your bill is much less than PG&E. Currently there is not a time based billing system though you can get on programs that give a discount to reduce usage during peak times. I'm on a summer program that picks 12 days in the summer and gives you a lower rate from 4-7pm.

I've been in Elk Grove for 11 years now and have never had a bill over $240 in the peak of summer. My average for the year is much closer to $120-140. House is just short of 4000sqft. The pool may be the changing factor this year.

 

[scootergmc]

I just ordered my Model 3. Will need/want to factor that in as well.

The issue is we just moved to the Sacramento area and I know we will want to run the AC from 2-7 and those are smack at peak times. Have to imagine there is a fast/clear ROI here..

$300/month is $3600/yr, electric car will probably be $1000/yr. So a $15,000 investment should be reasonable if it completely eliminates those costs.

Need to learn more..

Learn this- You'll be running your AC long past 7pm :laughing. Are you a SMUD customer? Your ROI won't be nearly as fast as it would in a PG&E area. SMUD currently has a "charge free for two years" program for electric cars too, and a 10k rebate on a BMW i3. Granted it's not a Tesla, but if your goal is just to go electric, then yeah.

SMUD rules, by the way. I have a residential meter for the house, and an ag/commercial meter running my pool/well. Under $200 total all summer. Dirt cheap in winter.

 

[mlm]

Had good luck with Highlite Solar.
http://www.highlightsolar.com

I'd rethink the battery though. The benefits are that you'll have power during an outage, and can adjust usage to avoid peak rates in the evening when the sun goes down. If your concern is time of day usage for A/C you might be better off to oversize your array so you can just bank more power into the meter (PG&E) to compensate

Also, a battery will NOT be enough to keep you off the grid (if thats even allowed) or avoid the fixed fees. Understand your production will vary significantly from winter to summer. During summer my system generates about 33kwh but about half that during winter months due to azimuth and length of sunlight.

 

[wazzuFreddo]

Depends on the inverters and how the system is wired if you are able to use a battery during an outage.

Any grid tied inverter needs to be IEEE 1547 compliant.

 

[Ducky_Fresh]

Had good luck with Highlite Solar.
http://www.highlightsolar.com

I'd rethink the battery though. The benefits are that you'll have power during an outage, and can adjust usage to avoid peak rates in the evening when the sun goes down. If your concern is time of day usage for A/C you might be better off to oversize your array so you can just bank more power into the meter (PG&E) to compensate

Also, a battery will NOT be enough to keep you off the grid (if thats even allowed) or avoid the fixed fees. Understand your production will vary significantly from winter to summer. During summer my system generates about 33kwh but about half that during winter months due to azimuth and length of sunlight.

Good tips. Mind if I ask how long it took and how much your system ended up being? Need to learn more about the azimuth stuff and winter vs summer “stuff”.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Get the roof checked out by a roofing professional before you pull the trigger. There'll be tears before bedtime if you have to replace the roof before you need to replace the panels.

Get the battery. Otherwise you'll be dependent upon the power grid for energy, which (partially) defeats the purpose of solar, to my mind.

If you get the battery, develop a load-shedding plan based on how long you expect an outage to be. For example:

Short outage: High-consumption devices (Ovens, AC, dishwashing, laundry) off.
Medium outage: Mid-consumption devices off (TVs, desktops).
Long outage: Emergency lights, mobile devices, and refrigerators only.

I also suggest getting all-LED lighting. It can cut your lighting bill by a factor of 8x or more.

 

[bruceflinch]

Just guessing, I would think a small generator would be more cost effective than the battery backup in case of power outage.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Just guessing, I would think a small generator would be more cost effective than the battery backup in case of power outage.

Maybe. But the battery backup has other advantages, too. Depending on the power provider, you may get paid a pittance for surplus power, and at times when you're away and consuming much less power than the system is producing, you may as well not have it.

Particularly during the winter, when solar production is at its lowest, you're not present for the peak of production. Either you can send it into the grid and get paid pennies on the dollar and still use grid power during peak (which goes until 9:30 at night in many areas), or you can store it and use it later, which will be much more beneficial, cost-wise.

I haven't run the numbers on this, so I may be wrong about it being worth it, but it's worth looking into.

 

[mlm]

Just guessing, I would think a small generator would be more cost effective than the battery backup in case of power outage.

Would work better too unless you are thinking end of days type prepping :laughing

I think we paid about 19K and it ended up about 14K with the tax credit. This was for a 20 panel system w/micro-inverters, single-story with easy access to a pre-existing new electrical panel. Even then I think we over-paid, but HighLight was the best bid I got (that actually bid what I asked for)

My advice:
1) Look online and you'll find information for sizing your system. This includes:
- your PG&E usage history for determining sizing
- information about sunlight for your location
- possibly even sizing calculators to give you DC to AC conversions

2) You can find the equipment cost for panels and inverters online. This helps when evaluating quotes because you can see the cost of the equipment vs how much they will try to gauge you on installation. Keep in mind that the actual labor will be 3-4 people working a day to install mounting brackets and then the panels. Most of the wiring is already pre-canned except for the feed to you electrical panel. In my case they accidentally left the subcontracting invoice which revealed there was a supervisor from the solar company and roofers from the Central Valley.

3) Be selective and get a lot of quotes. Also know what you want first. Part of the reason I went with HighLight is because most of the other companies didn't give me what I was bidding for. They tried changing the capacity, offering me different equipment etc. Most places seem to be geared towards asking for your PG&E bill then using a google satellite view to spec the system. Then they'll give you overly optomistic finance analysis to make whatever they quoted seem like a bargain. In my case I spec'd with micro-inverters because although they cost slightly more they isolate production per panel so any obstructions or future panel failures would be easier to deal with.

 

[mlm]

Maybe. But the battery backup has other advantages, too. Depending on the power provider, you may get paid a pittance for surplus power, and at times when you're away and consuming much less power than the system is producing, you may as well not have it.

Particularly during the winter, when solar production is at its lowest, you're not present for the peak of production. Either you can send it into the grid and get paid pennies on the dollar and still use grid power during peak (which goes until 9:30 at night in many areas), or you can store it and use it later, which will be much more beneficial, cost-wise.

I haven't run the numbers on this, so I may be wrong about it being worth it, but it's worth looking into.

Problem is that unless you significantly upsize your array you are unlikely to produce enough electricity to cover your usage for the winter months. Not only will you not have the energy to store, you won't have much peak load for it to be worth it. That same oversized array will generate large surpluses in the summer that you won't have capacity to store and will be selling an wholesale rates to PG&E.

While a battery seems like a cool idea, it's even cooler when you realize PG&E is giving you one for free

 

[wazzuFreddo]

Free tool to estimate production

https://pvwatts.nrel.gov

 

[ctwo]

I just ordered my Model 3. Will need/want to factor that in as well.

The issue is we just moved to the Sacramento area and I know we will want to run the AC from 2-7 and those are smack at peak times. Have to imagine there is a fast/clear ROI here..

$300/month is $3600/yr, electric car will probably be $1000/yr. So a $15,000 investment should be reasonable if it completely eliminates those costs.

Need to learn more..

Something to think about...

The solar payback can be tricky and things seem to be changing rather quickly. A friend has a system and he warns that you really cannot get paid for your solar production, there is an annual true-up at wholesale rate, and that has a cap!

He said you should plan to offset your usage, but that becomes difficult when the utilities introduce TOU plans and rates are higher when you cannot produce. You can make it work out and reduce your cost quite a bit; however, here is the thing to think about.

IF your solar system break-even is 5 years, which I think is optimistic, consider an alternative. Right now you can find secure share accounts paying over 3% amortized quarterly. A $15k deposit will have a value over $17k in 5 years. Continue compounding that to 10 years and you've kicked that panel system's payback square in the nads.

Now, if you could go completely off-grid, then things might change slightly.
Batteries wear out and right now the tech is not there. You get only so many cycles out of them (kWhr). The cost of the battery alone is about equal per kWhr as what the utilities charge, so you pay more for that system. TOU could change that and you might be able to get ahead, but your payback will be linear vs compounded. Over time, that make a big difference.

 

[gsxr_paul]

Had good luck with Highlite Solar.
http://www.highlightsolar.com

I'd rethink the battery though. The benefits are that you'll have power during an outage, and can adjust usage to avoid peak rates in the evening when the sun goes down. If your concern is time of day usage for A/C you might be better off to oversize your array so you can just bank more power into the meter (PG&E) to compensate

Also, a battery will NOT be enough to keep you off the grid (if thats even allowed) or avoid the fixed fees. Understand your production will vary significantly from winter to summer. During summer my system generates about 33kwh but about half that during winter months due to azimuth and length of sunlight.

Had good luck with Highlight solar. Had them install a 5.985 kW system on my 5/3 2600sq. ft. house with a pool and 5 ton AC unit. First year we ran the AC sparingly, and ended up with a -$70 PGE net metering bill. About to have my year end statement from PGE for the past year and will owe ~$100-$125 for the year. This with running the AC whenever the house got above 80.

I also just picked up my Model 3 a few weeks ago and have only charged a few times at home since I can charge at work for free, so I don't know how much that will impact next year.

At some point I may add more panels and battery backup.

 

[zphreak]

Here's something to compare the rates you get from SMUD vs PG&E

https://www.smud.org/en/Rate-Information/Compare-Rates

PG&E is 2nd highest behind San Diego. I've been checking every year for the last 5 years and still haven't found a program where the math works out in my favor for quite a while.

 

[stangmx13]

I doubt a battery is worth it, even w/ an electric car. I generate enough power in the summer so that my bills in the winter are covered by the credit we have with SDGE. there is no cost-savings in having a battery when I ALWAYS pay the minimum charge for power. so theres no point in having a battery. I suspect this is true for other good solar areas too like Sac. ud need to upsize the array for an electric car anyway, making it even less likely u can use a battery.