How to get the car dealer to charge appropriately for XYZ service

[mbsv]

My car's at 30k miles. The manufacturer says:

Replace: Engine oil
Replace: Engine oil filter
Replace: Brake Fluid / Clutch Fluid (Manual Only)
Replace: Air cleaner element
Inspect: CVT Fluid
Inspect: Drive belt(s) [Except camshaft]
Inspect: Engine Coolant Systems, hoses and connections
Inspect: Fuel systems, lines and connections
Perform: Rotate and Inspect Tires
Inspect: Transmission/Differential (Front & Rear) lubricants (Gear oil)

So, an oil change + a brake fluid change + inspect a bunch of stuff.

Dealer quote is $500-600.

An oil change costs $90 (synthetic, dealer price; sometimes cheaper w/a coupon).
What's a brake fluid change cost? Let's say $135?
The air filter is $25 (and I had it done 5000 miles ago).

How long do those 'inspects' take? Is it really $250 worth of mechanic time?

A non-dealer said $600 but that includes 'all' the fluids and the spark plugs--which are scheduled at 60k, and some fluids not 'til over 100k.

What's the magic keyword? Can I say "I want an oil change and a brake flush and an inspection of these items"?

 

[madsen203]

CVT is usually replaced at 30-35k in Hondas. I think it's best to BS with a service advisor and say you don't want the junk and want it done right. You can negotiate rates as well. Walk in confidently saying you want XYZ for $OTD. I did this and saved $100 bucks (25%) with little push back.

 

[madsen203]

Got a $5 bet they don't inspect half of what is said. They check brake pad depth, color of brake fluid, and if you have a dip stick on your CVT they will check color and level. Any one can do this without their help.

 

[mikev]

Couple hours labor + dealer price for parts? Seems about right.

 

[Holeshot]

If it's under warranty, they'll inspect for free anyway. They don't necessarily want warranty work, but they survive on it. They'll try and find something to bill the manufacturer for on your car, if they can.

 

[TheRobSJ]

If it's under warranty, they'll inspect for free anyway. They don't necessarily want warranty work, but they survive on it. They'll try and find something to bill the manufacturer for on your car, if they can.

Depends on when you catch them and what other metrics are in play.

We're not really supposed to (no we're actually outright forbidden) "upsell" warranty work unless it's a safety issue. Leaking shock? Ok we'll do it. Rattle noise from a seat that I know there's a service bulletin for? Not saying shit.

That's how it's supposed to go at least. Dealers that are hurting for work might do some move where the service writer adds the work in and makes the paperwork look like the customer brought it in for that complaint.

There's only so much you can get away with though. We do a lot of legit big warranty claims already to start the month off (transmissions or other big ticket items) and that kind of blows the wad for the rest of the month. If we wind up billing out more than the average for other dealers, corporate eyes start looking a little closer at everything we did and we may even get audited. And no dealer ever wants that. Because they will always find something that violates the franchise agreement.

 

[TheRobSJ]

OP what kind of vehicle is this for?

An oil change, tire rotation, air filter (and cabin filter), with all the inspections in Honda/Acura speak is called a B12 service. I believe I'm at around $300 for that. The brake flush is about $150.

A dealer getting $5-600 for that? Better be a high line German luxury car or something like that for that high of a price.

 

[Holeshot]

Good stuff, Rob!

 

[Reli]

LOL @ brake fluid at only 30K miles

As for "inspections" lol.....they'll take only 2-3 minutes to inspect everything on that list

 

[mbsv]

it's a subaru. they have hydraulic clutches, so yes there is such a thing (I see there was an edit about that); uses brake fluid too so it has the same hygroscopic properties which are the supposed reason to change the brakes.

but of course I have a CVT, which doesn't have any specified replace interval. except for 'severe' usage, in which case replace at 24,855 miles. (why didn't they round that to 24 or 30k? none of the other service intervals are in km.). will the dealer offer a discount to not replace the non-existent fluid? lol.

if the honda b12 service of oil change + inspection + filters is $300 for dino oil, adding brake + synthetic -> $500 isn't all that far off.

here's a transcription of the subaru rec's:
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/maintenance-2015.html

here's a non-local dealer's price sheet; they're cheaper than any of the bay area dealers but the idea is similar, including the 'here are some things we might do but hey probably not since your car doesn't need blinker fluid'; the local dealer's website lists exactly what they'll do but i can't compare prices.
http://www.eastsidesubaru.com/service/subaru-service-menu.htm

the dealers typically schedule out one week or more, so i don't think they're hurting for business.

 

[TheRobSJ]

LOL @ brake fluid at only 30K miles

As for "inspections" lol.....they'll take only 2-3 minutes to inspect everything on that list

Many manufacturers don't specify mileage for brake fluid. Instead it's simply X years. Most are 3. Some are 4. Some are even 2.

 

[unhinged]

Yeah those 30/60/whatever K service packages at dealers are kind of a scam. Stuff doesn't add up and generally the inspections are done for free already at any service visit at most dealers. They sucker people by sending coupons for these services but the after-coupon price is still high.

Also, my wife got the "30K service" for her VW. In the inspection they noted that the tires were worn and needed replacement. Then they rotated the tires, because that's part of the service. Gee thanks guys what a deal. Then they failed to actually change the brake fluid (had to specifically ask and then find out they didn't). And tried to charge an insane price for a PCV valve.

Caveat emptor.

 

[TheRobSJ]

Yeah those 30/60/whatever K service packages at dealers are kind of a scam. Stuff doesn't add up and generally the inspections are done for free already at any service visit at most dealers. They sucker people by sending coupons for these services but the after-coupon price is still high.

How are they a scam? Generally, those routine services are "menu" priced. We keep the menu very competitive with other local dealers. In order to get the price down to what we wind up with, we have to discount the price of the parts off what they'd normally sell for and discount the labor as well. Coupons (10% off or whatever) means we cut into the profit even more.

Inspections that are "done for free" are usually the basics. Brakes, tires, wipers, etc. Nobody is pulling plugs on differentials inspecting fluid for free at a dealer. Want that? Go to Jiffy Lube.

 

[Reli]

It's a scam because they try to impress you with a bunch of "checkpoints", which in reality only take a few minutes to check.

Case in point:

My car's at 30k miles. The manufacturer says:

Replace: Engine oil
Replace: Engine oil filter
Replace: Brake Fluid / Clutch Fluid (Manual Only)
Replace: Air cleaner element
Inspect: CVT Fluid
Inspect: Drive belt(s) [Except camshaft]
Inspect: Engine Coolant Systems, hoses and connections
Inspect: Fuel systems, lines and connections
Perform: Rotate and Inspect Tires
Inspect: Transmission/Differential (Front & Rear) lubricants (Gear oil)

So, an oil change + a brake fluid change + inspect a bunch of stuff.

Dealer quote is $500-600.

Let's allow $100 for the oil & filter change.

$50 for the air filter (@ full dealer MSRP), plus 10 minutes to install it (It doesn't take a full hour like they always try to claim).

Say $100 to replace the brake fluid (though this is too generous IMO).

Where does the remaining $250-350 come from? Oh, the "inspections", and rotating the tires. The total of that should take less than 30 minutes.

 

[Reli]

 

[AbsolutEnduser]

MBSV it's possible they forgot to notice your car is CVT and not a manual

or! They simply want to replace the brake fluid anyway. -> $$$
Also if you're in SF or Daly City they simply want your money. ()


But one thing... let's talk about prices ... With good synthetic oil, I cannot replace the oil on my car for under $60 (and I do do it!). And that's not counting my time ... how much is my or your time per hour.. no question.

(I still do it sometimes and in fact It provided me extreme inspection benefits on two things leaking
p.s. they replaced that transmission oil filter, said it was cracked )

 

[Butch]

The "dealer" is not necessasarily competent. They don't have to be.

 

[rtmac]

My car's at 30k miles. The manufacturer says:

Replace: Engine oil
Replace: Engine oil filter
Replace: Brake Fluid / Clutch Fluid (Manual Only)
Replace: Air cleaner element
Inspect: CVT Fluid
Inspect: Drive belt(s) [Except camshaft]
Inspect: Engine Coolant Systems, hoses and connections
Inspect: Fuel systems, lines and connections
Perform: Rotate and Inspect Tires
Inspect: Transmission/Differential (Front & Rear) lubricants (Gear oil)

So, an oil change + a brake fluid change + inspect a bunch of stuff.

Dealer quote is $500-600.

An oil change costs $90 (synthetic, dealer price; sometimes cheaper w/a coupon).
What's a brake fluid change cost? Let's say $135?
The air filter is $25 (and I had it done 5000 miles ago).

How long do those 'inspects' take? Is it really $250 worth of mechanic time?

A non-dealer said $600 but that includes 'all' the fluids and the spark plugs--which are scheduled at 60k, and some fluids not 'til over 100k.

What's the magic keyword? Can I say "I want an oil change and a brake flush and an inspection of these items"?

The cold hard truth is, the average dealership technician doesn't even take the time to do the full inspection. A 30k service usually takes them 20-30 minutes, tops, start to finish, blow & go (a car w/ 30k miles never needs anything anyway... and the last thing they want to do is "find" anything that might be covered under warranty). A "Brake Fluid Service" is often just suck the fluid out of the master cylinder reservoir, then top it off with clean fluid. A "Fuel System Service" is dump a can of BG snake oil in the tank (which they rarely even do). Btw, brake fluid is always due by time, not miles... dealers just package into their 30/60/90 "menu" services (along with other "wallet flushes"), then try to make it appear that it's all recommended by the manufacturer. After over 30 years in auto repair (dealer & indie), I can tell you that IMO, the dealership service dept is absolutely the biggest bull shit scam out there. Dealers are for two things only... warranty repairs & recalls... Period. If they recommend ANYTHING that's not covered, decline it & go get a second opinion. At least 80% of the "dealer recommended" repairs I re-inspect are either completely unnecessary, or can wait for at least a couple service intervals, or longer.

 

[mbsv]

How are they a scam? Generally, those routine services are "menu" priced. We keep the menu very competitive with other local dealers. In order to get the price down to what we wind up with, we have to discount the price of the parts off what they'd normally sell for and discount the labor as well...

Inspections that are "done for free" are usually the basics. Brakes, tires, wipers, etc. Nobody is pulling plugs on differentials inspecting fluid for free at a dealer. Want that? Go to Jiffy Lube.

It feels like a scam because it's a menu like this:

Meal Special
Hamburger
Fries
Soda
And an Ice Cream

$50

Meanwhile, a hamburger by itself is $10, fries $5, soda $5, and ice cream? Not listed. But certainly $30 seems like way way too much, even if you know the $5 soda is already $4.90 in profit.

 

[TheRobSJ]

The "dealer" is not necessasarily competent. They don't have to be.

Yes I do. Now I'm not going to be so crazy to say that every dealership technician knows the car inside and out. But at least one or two of them in the building have to know what the hell they're doing. The dealer is the last line of defense so to speak. I get a minimum of at least one vehicle a week where another "mechanic" tried to diagnose/repair something and either didn't have the knowledge and/or special tools to get it done. They simply throw their hands in the air and just tell their customer "oh just take it to the dealer."