Moved from B+ to A group right before lunch. Didn't take a break between sessions. High sided on turn 10. I'm thinking I accidentally locked the rear brakes on entry...
Was riding a 2010 ZX6R. Pretty sure the bike is totaled.
Describe the events that led up to the crash. Were you braking with the front brake? Where? Did the crash occur before you turned in, during the turn in, or after you had turned and were into the throttle? How fast were you going?
That particular corner is what I call a "throw away corner". Nobody goes through it fast and it's a waste of time to try to. You just slow down and get it over with.
Describe the events that led up to the crash. Were you braking with the front brake? Where? Did the crash occur before you turned in, during the turn in, or after you had turned and were into the throttle? How fast were you going?
That particular corner is what I call a "throw away corner". Nobody goes through it fast and it's a waste of time to try to. You just slow down and get it over with.
^^This. the old adage of "slow down to go fast" pays off here. This and turn 5E are both throw away corners. It is amazing how many blow 5E and go dirt riding!
Looking at the vid, I'm thinking you may have been a little bit too much into the throttle for that corner while still leaned over a lot. Also could be cold tire crash.
Weird crash. Hard to tell with all the wind noise, but I didn't sound like you got back into the throttle. If you were turning in on the rear brake, I guess locking up the rear is a plausible theory.
Fun video, thanks for sharing. I was rooting for you so hard when the EMT was attempting to establish if you were alert and oriented. I was like "come on, say Willows, SAY WILLOWS!".
That particular corner is what I call a "throw away corner". Nobody goes through it fast and it's a waste of time to try to. You just slow down and get it over with.
Depends a lot on the bike, right? I know I was trying to carry as much speed through there as possible, even going well over the white lines at exit, because every little bit of corner exit speed helps down the long straight. If you've got gobs of power on tap, then yeah, just get the bike pointed in the correct direction ASAP and crack open the throttle...
Depends a lot on the bike, right? I know I was trying to carry as much speed through there as possible, even going well over the white lines at exit, because every little bit of corner exit speed helps down the long straight. If you've got gobs of power on tap, then yeah, just get the bike pointed in the correct direction ASAP and crack open the throttle...
More people crash going fast in a slow corner than going fast in a fast corner.
Fast corners are where you want to go fast. Corners like T15 at Thill are important to get that last tiny bit of speed to help on the straight. There's no way you can get that kind of help at T10 on the west side. It's a really slow corner. On a 250, yeah, it gives you that drive for the first ten feet. But it is really a slow corner.
Cant type much with one hand, but I will say that it was probably a mistake trying to follow a faster rider on a new line at a higher speed than I'm used to through that corner. I normally take a wider line and enter a bit slower. You can kind of see it at the beginning of the clip.
Cant type much with one hand, but I will say that it was probably a mistake trying to follow a faster rider on a new line at a higher speed than I'm used to through that corner.
Looking at it again, you look like you crashed right at point of max lean. I'm going for a bit of excitement leading to you carrying a bit too much throttle at that point.
i cant hear any throttle addition right before the crash.
were u using the rear brake?
unexpected corner entry rear slides are tough. there are very few ways to safely increase rear grip at that time and still make the corner. the main two are hang off more and decrease the front brake. unfortunately it looks like u stiffened up and hung off less, essentially pulling the bike down with u.
What I saw there was the OP being passed by a faster rider and deciding to step up his pace immediately. Including braking less to carry more speed. It didn't work.
I don't believe so. He would need to be sliding due to throttle and also maintain positive throttle through the corner. The TC systems don't add throttle on their own.
I don't claim to be an expert but a highside is usually proceeded by a loss of rear traction and the back of the bike starts to come around (oversteer). You can tell that is happening in the video as the handlebars are turning into the skid.
If traction is never regained, it continues to yaw and you have a lowside. Unfortunately, the source of the lost traction, excess throttle or brake, is frequently reduced sharply, and the rear regains traction. Now you have a bike going sideways at speed with a big weight (the rider) at the top and it will be a highside.
Loss of traction in the front has the bars turning into the turn and will result in a lowside although I'm sure someone has managed to turn on into a highside at some point.
Compare what happens to the handlebars on this front loss low side to the OPs vid.
I'll agree with others points. I think the other bike passing on inside threw off you rhythm, you were not aggressively on the throttle on the other corners and I did not hear it just before the crash.
My guess is that you were watching the other rider too much, doubted your corner entry speed and went for the rear brake.
As I have been told many times, the rear brake is pretty useless on the track unless you go off the track. Yes, the track ninjas use it to settle the bike in the turns, but I ain't there yet
Moved from B+ to A group right before lunch. Didn't take a break between sessions. High sided on turn 10. I'm thinking I accidentally locked the rear brakes on entry...
What was your criteria to move to A, if you aren't even sure if you locked the rear brake on entry? I might suggest that perhaps B+ was more than adequate for your skill level. Even in B, you should know whether you are using your brakes or not.
I can't tell exactly where your rear wheel is located, but there is patch out there from the autos, and that patch has less grip than the regular asphalt.
Regardless, your line was nothing like the rider that passed you. You should have been farther outside and started the turn much later. You were already leaned more than the other rider BEFORE the apex. A good exercise to improve your track cornering and speed is to try to end a turn as close to the inside as possible. This will force you to start your turn-in later. This will also train you to make safer passes on corner exit, rather than trying to beat people to the inside of the corner on the brakes.
What was your criteria to move to A, if you aren't even sure if you locked the rear brake on entry? I might suggest that perhaps B+ was more than adequate for your skill level. Even in B, you should know whether you are using your brakes or not.
I can't tell exactly where your rear wheel is located, but there is patch out there from the autos, and that patch has less grip than the regular asphalt.
Regardless, your line was nothing like the rider that passed you. You should have been farther outside and started the turn much later. You were already leaned more than the other rider BEFORE the apex. A good exercise to improve your track cornering and speed is to try to end a turn as close to the inside as possible. This will force you to start your turn-in later. This will also train you to make safer passes on corner exit, rather than trying to beat people to the inside of the corner on the brakes.
I see your point. I kept hitting traffic in B+ and thought following faster riders would help improve line selection and my general form.
I'm still not sure if it was rear brakes or throttle. Before the crash, I was having this strange issue with accidentally applying a small amount of throttle while on the front brakes. This caused the rear end to wag a little bit. I'm thinking it had to do with me not being used to the deadzone on the throttle if that's a thing...It was a first for me but that might have caused it too.
This also wasn't my bike :ride
I wish I could remember more from the crash. At any rate, I appreciate the perspective and advice from everyone. My shoulder has already made huge gains in a weeks time, I'm hoping to be back on my bikes within the next two months.
I'm guessing that it not being a familiar bike to you was also a significant factor.
Most fuel injected bikes have slight dead area just off idle due to fuel cut on deceleration for emissions.
With some bikes, it is not noticeable, some don't handle it so well. The most recent example is when Yamaha rolled out the FZ-09 a couple of years ago.
I don't know the T-Hill expansion, but you have some issues. You miss the apex of the right at 1:20. You're way off line on the right at 1:25 when you got passed. The fast guy pulls away exiting the turn because proper line. He hits the apex on the left, which you don't, at 1:28. You don't make the left side transition well, your body's crossed up for the last left. Seems like you're trying to close the gap, but you're off line, too fast, and then looks like you tried to apex early. Maybe you hit the rear brake then. Possibly you could have braked deeper, and trail braked to make the turn. The fast guy would have been in a different zip code by then. You can't catch a rabbit until you know the trail.
I got vetted by a control rider before I moved up to A. I still managed to crash my second session because I changed my lap too much.
You can get PTSD after a crash, not in a lifelong thousand-yard stare way, but in a limited way lasting a few months where you sorta obsess about the crash. Hope you heal up, physically and mentally, dust yourself off and move on. Maybe B group.
